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Pilot shortage in USA

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Pilot shortage in USA

Old 2nd Apr 2022, 21:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I myself joined a 121 operator (non regional) last fall as a DEC in a large aircraft...I have had my GC since many years though and have prior time in US operations.
FlyTCI,

Interesting. Would you be able to reveal your employer as an example for others who might be able to do what you did ?

Having a green card puts you on equal footing with US citizens where airline employment is concerned. So, it may not be representative of what an true expat may face.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 05:29
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 391
The salary at non-majors is just too low for a good life in the US. And if you manage to eventually join the majors you need to accept a right hand seat again plus time plus junior bases..

Might be a great opportunity for low seniority / young guys from CX, but I doubt attractive for any captain..

Anyone who disagrees should put numbers on the table.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 06:11
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
The salary at non-majors is just too low for a good life in the US. And if you manage to eventually join the majors you need to accept a right hand seat again plus time plus junior bases..

Might be a great opportunity for low seniority / young guys from CX, but I doubt attractive for any captain..

Anyone who disagrees should put numbers on the table.
That all depends on your definition of a good life and what you feel is a good QOL for your self and family. Living in the US is not for everyone but increasingly neither is Hong Kong. I agree, for CX captains, right seat at a US airline might feel like a step down for them but for others it might be an improvement. All personal preferences, itís just interesting to see what possibilities are now becoming available for foreign pilots in the US.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 07:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Totally agree
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 11:08
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: on earth
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
FlyTCI,

Interesting. Would you be able to reveal your employer as an example for others who might be able to do what you did ?

Having a green card puts you on equal footing with US citizens where airline employment is concerned. So, it may not be representative of what an true expat may face.
I would potentially reveal myself to potential colleagues (although it’s unlikely any of them are here) if I did, so I prefer not to. Lets say tenacity, networking and a bit of luck got me into a spot which could turn out to be very good long term.

My initial path was getting married to a US citizen some 15 years ago, who I divorced seven years later. I worked for a US 135 operator before going back to international flying for a non US company which ended just before Covid and then I was out of a job for two years before getting on with my current employer. 1000+ hours of 135 jet PIC meant that I met the 121 PIC requirement and I already had 1500 hours in the type I was recently hired on (which did not count towards the 1000 hrs as it was not operated under N reg).

Foreigners will need to spend a minimum of 1000 hours as 121 SIC (or 1000 hrs 135 jet PIC) for them to be able to upgrade, so none of them will slide directly into a left seat. However, with some of the Captain bids at the legacies going as low as 2.5 months on property one technically could be in the left seat as soon as the 1000 hr requirement is met. That would most likely be on reserve in NYC though, not ideal for most. But, those who are willing to work hard can make 200-250k or even more even in the right seat of the bigger LCCs and majors after a couple of years. Yes, the US has become a very expensive place to live over the last two years, but if you can’t make it on mid 200s then you need to talk to a financial planner.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 12:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I would potentially reveal myself to potential colleagues (although itís unlikely any of them are here) if I did, so I prefer not to.


Foreigners will need to spend a minimum of 1000 hours as 121 SIC (or 1000 hrs 135 jet PIC) for them to be able to upgrade, so none of them will slide directly into a left seat. However, with some of the Captain bids at the legacies going as low as 2.5 months on property one technically could be in the left seat as soon as the 1000 hr requirement is met.
FlyTCI,

Understand.

The rapid upgrades at a couple of legacy carriers that became news recently are likely flukes. These folks will be lucky to hang onto those spots if/when the first economic hiccup comes along. They only got them because the people senior to them didn't want them, likely for the reason you mentioned (perpetual reserve in NYC is a fate right up there with burning in Purgatory).

Glad things have worked out so well for you.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 13:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 132
'Oh what a tangled web we weave/when first we practice to deceive.' Metere quod seminas. We all know what happened in Hong Kong good luck with your job search in North America...

Last edited by LLLQNH; 3rd Apr 2022 at 14:44.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 19:20
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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Originally Posted by LLLQNH View Post
'Oh what a tangled web we weave/when first we practice to deceive.' Metere quod seminas. We all know what happened in Hong Kong good luck with your job search in North America...
It's amazing how intelligent you sound, when you throw in a little Latin for good measure.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 19:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: on earth
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
FlyTCI,

Understand.

The rapid upgrades at a couple of legacy carriers that became news recently are likely flukes. These folks will be lucky to hang onto those spots if/when the first economic hiccup comes along. They only got them because the people senior to them didn't want them, likely for the reason you mentioned (perpetual reserve in NYC is a fate right up there with burning in Purgatory).

Glad things have worked out so well for you.
Thanks bafan.

As someone who is following the international job market much more closely than the average American pilot I strongly caution my friends and colleagues about foreign pilots coming into the US job market and potentially bringing down the currently good conditions US pilots are experiencing. The same conditions which have taken them so many years to finally bring back to respectable levels. Once greedy managements get a whiff of it, and some already have, you’d better watch out as it can be used against the current pilot group as a worst case. Obviously it won’t happen at a union shop, but at a place like mine with no union, my job can quickly go from great to sucky. I would like to think the management of my company won’t go that route to lower our compensation, but there is already work happening on getting foreign pilots onboard which does me a bit nervous. I know of other US pilots with vast experience of OCONUS who share my fear and who is also trying to educate his US peers who are less in tune with the topic.

It’s nothing personal against non US pilots, I fully understand the allure of the current US pilot job market and I am very grateful that I have access to it, but it’s a dog eat dog world out there and one can never be too casual over something potentially affecting your livelihood in a negative way.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 23:11
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Ecam321 View Post
@B2N2


SIC part 121 PIC part135 & 91 all count towards the 1000 hour requirements
Not all 135 PIC counts. Has to be 135.243(a)(1) PIC so turbojet, or with more than 10 seats, or multi-engine in a commuter operation (read: Cape Air). In effect, it has to be an operation that requires a full ATP to count towards 121 upgrade.

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Old 4th Apr 2022, 18:24
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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STW

Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
The salary at non-majors is just too low for a good life in the US. And if you manage to eventually join the majors you need to accept a right hand seat again plus time plus junior bases..

Might be a great opportunity for low seniority / young guys from CX, but I doubt attractive for any captain..

Anyone who disagrees should put numbers on the table.
You sir are the perfect CX cuckold.... Appropriately dense enough to believe the BS you spew
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 21:06
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
Posts: 1,795
This may be of interest. Just in from AVweb:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...cancellations/
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 21:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
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Hear Hear.

(what Flex88 said)
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 21:35
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
The salary at non-majors is just too low for a good life in the US. And if you manage to eventually join the majors you need to accept a right hand seat again plus time plus junior bases..

Might be a great opportunity for low seniority / young guys from CX, but I doubt attractive for any captain..

Anyone who disagrees should put numbers on the table.

Just so you know- factually incorrect as quite a number of captains from CX have headed and are off to the US.. something to do with pennys bay quadrupling in size in a matter of months, gps tracker bracelets and a 12 hour day for a Taipei turn somehow not adding to a particularly high quality of life and thatís without mentioning having kids in HK..
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 21:56
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
The salary at non-majors is just too low for a good life in the US. And if you manage to eventually join the majors you need to accept a right hand seat again plus time plus junior bases..

Might be a great opportunity for low seniority / young guys from CX, but I doubt attractive for any captain..

Anyone who disagrees should put numbers on the table.
Garbage Sam. As a former CX Captain now working for a non-major US outfit, I suggest you widen your research.

I currently earn just shy of my wonderful POS 18 CN salary, but my familyís QOL has increased ten-fold.

And I had to go back to the RHS.

Iím not in a junior base.

Last edited by Veruka Salt; 4th Apr 2022 at 22:21.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 04:58
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 391
So do I understand you correctly: you are in the RHS of a non-major and make the same as a CX cpt ( in the region of 20 after tax?) I am genuinely curious, no offense. And what is your career plan? Will you seek another RHS at a major or stick to your current airline?


Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 5th Apr 2022 at 05:23.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 07:27
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Not in HKG
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
So do I understand you correctly: you are in the RHS of a non-major and make the same as a CX cpt ( in the region of 20 after tax?) I am genuinely curious, no offense. And what is your career plan? Will you seek another RHS at a major or stick to your current airline?
I suggest you re-read POS 18, a CX Capt does not earn 20k USD after tax.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 07:39
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I would potentially reveal myself to potential colleagues (although itís unlikely any of them are here) if I did, so I prefer not to. Lets say tenacity, networking and a bit of luck got me into a spot which could turn out to be very good long term.

My initial path was getting married to a US citizen some 15 years ago, who I divorced seven years later. I worked for a US 135 operator before going back to international flying for a non US company which ended just before Covid and then I was out of a job for two years before getting on with my current employer. 1000+ hours of 135 jet PIC meant that I met the 121 PIC requirement and I already had 1500 hours in the type I was recently hired on (which did not count towards the 1000 hrs as it was not operated under N reg).

Foreigners will need to spend a minimum of 1000 hours as 121 SIC (or 1000 hrs 135 jet PIC) for them to be able to upgrade, so none of them will slide directly into a left seat. However, with some of the Captain bids at the legacies going as low as 2.5 months on property one technically could be in the left seat as soon as the 1000 hr requirement is met. That would most likely be on reserve in NYC though, not ideal for most. But, those who are willing to work hard can make 200-250k or even more even in the right seat of the bigger LCCs and majors after a couple of years. Yes, the US has become a very expensive place to live over the last two years, but if you canít make it on mid 200s then you need to talk to a financial planner.
Unless you got a DEC at Atlas, or Omni I couldnít see you making that much and that would even be a stretch. Eastern you def wouldnít , nor Global X or Breeze.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 14:56
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by Turkpilot View Post
Unless you got a DEC at Atlas, or Omni I couldn’t see you making that much and that would even be a stretch. Eastern you def wouldn’t , nor Global X or Breeze.
Keep guessing.

On the 7th I can show you my pay check of $25k for March if you like. Yes, I flew a lot of hours in March (16 over min guarantee) since we are short on crew just like all the other US 121 carriers, but because of dropped and pay protected trips and working a couple of extra days that is my total paycheck with 13 days off. Won’t happen every month but I will quite easily make 20k+/month going forward. My February pay check was $22.7k.

Not trying to brag here, just adding truth and reality to those playing down what you can make at US carriers in 2022. And I am making far less than some of the boys and girls are making at the big players, but I am personally very happy with what I have and I make sure to appreciate it.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 15:27
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
Keep guessing.

On the 7th I can show you my pay check of $25k for March if you like. Yes, I flew a lot of hours in March (16 over min guarantee) since we are short on crew just like all the other US 121 carriers, but because of dropped and pay protected trips and working a couple of extra days that is my total paycheck with 13 days off. Wonít happen every month but I will quite easily make 20k+/month going forward. My February pay check was $22.7k.

Not trying to brag here, just adding truth and reality to those playing down what you can make at US carriers in 2022. And I am making far less than some of the boys and girls are making at the big players, but I am personally very happy with what I have and I make sure to appreciate it.
Thanks for your input and perspective.
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