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COS18 one year on!

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS18 one year on!

Old 4th Dec 2021, 00:15
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Well you have quoted base pay only so COVID times aside you’d likely be pulling in more than that per month. You also have assumed a wife that doesn’t work at all. In any other country the wives would need to work in order to make ends meet as well so you are doing well to survive off a sole income, at least childcare is cheap in HK with a domestic helper compared to the western world.

3 kid family will of course find expenses high in any country. Kids are expensive... But if you have only 1-2 kids you’d be living pretty comfortably on the cx package as an FO or CAPT.

If the package was so unliveable then no one would be left working at CX. Those saying you would be better off at EK, I suggest you go read the thread posts on here about the cost of living in Dubai and you’ll quickly realise you are still better off at CX. Dubai has its own problems of no democracy and restricted freedom of speech as well.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 00:32
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Where do I start picking this apart?
1 - The quoted amount included the pilot allowance.

2 - The wife/husband when you uproot and move as a expat might struggle to find work due to unrecognised qualifications so they will probably not work.

3. There is no way you can live comfortably on an FO salary in Hong Kong even with 2 kids. The cost of quality education alone is through the roof.

4. EK offers a house and pays for all utilities, they provide a relocation allowance and decent medical coverage. Whereas CX does their best to push you into the public system.

You post is fraught with so much errors that it’s embarrassing
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 00:37
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Don’t know about that.
I have been monitoring money very closely since POS18, FO2, 1 child.
Wife works and earns very decent money now but she is working a lot more than before and enjoying HK life a lot less.
My son luckily doesn’t pay for sports, he play sports in two clubs one is free because he’s decent and was offered a spot and I coach in the other so I get a deal, that’s good money I am saving.
We haven’had a holiday or travelled.
You add a son, pay for sports, wife earns less, take a deserved holiday, go back home a few times and it is a completely different picture.
We can make it now, don’t know about 2023.
EK yes probably same shit different colour, sometimes just a change of colour is at least something.
Got to go take two tests now…..
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 04:29
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Once he housing and schooling allowances disappear end of 2022 the package will be unlivable. Fact.

And even if you can make ends meet the ultimate problem is still - as stated many many times - that you will live a crap lifestyle in a crappy flat unable to afford anything beyond basics and absolutely unable to save, buy a house anywhere or prepare in any way for retirement. You will leave here as poor as you came.

But come please all of you doubters come here and figure it out for yourselves...

This will become a commuting contract for the majority post covid - like every other asian carrier who employs outside labour...
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 06:44
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noboloco,

In all seriousness, I put figures in place. I’m sure myself and everyone else on this thread would love a rundown of your numbers and how you arrived to “comfortable living” with 2 kids and assuming the wife will not be working.

You seem really good at dishing it out at whomever whispers anything about CX and moving on….. it’s almost like you’re trying your best to discourage people from leaving. So put up or shut up with the numbers.

Last edited by Jnr380; 4th Dec 2021 at 12:52.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 10:19
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With a wife not working and most of your money being lost on tennis lessons, coffee and DB bookazine I doubt you will even have a spare cent to pay for DB International School.

The exodus will continue until the only ones who are left are the single/never married FO's and SO's.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 11:21
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smogluver

Exactly. This is how the contract is structured. To hire what you need. Keeps training costs down. Just look at how many DFOs they are hiring right now.

This is no longer a career airline. Just look at it with the same lens as you do Korean. Except, Korean will still exist in 2023.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 12:58
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The problem with direct entry command is the course will most likely be difficult and expecting a high a failure rate. Remember, the only pilots that meet CX standards are CX pilots……or not.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 14:49
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They will just lower the standards. As the way most expat flooded companies no, you have to be a perfect sky god to pass a command upgrade internally but they will let any man and his dog in direct entry.
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Old 7th Dec 2021, 22:59
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Originally Posted by Rie View Post
They will just lower the standards. As the way most expat flooded companies no, you have to be a perfect sky god to pass a command upgrade internally but they will let any man and his dog in direct entry.
Everyone I fly with that's looking at EK can't believe how sh*t the pay is. Grass isn't always greener but it's nice to pretend.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 00:09
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
Everyone I fly with that's looking at EK can't believe how sh*t the pay is. Grass isn't always greener but it's nice to pretend.
Perhaps, but you’ll be putting some money away every month since rent and utilities are paid for by the company, and they still offer schooling. With some of the highest housing costs in the world, an FO with kids won’t be saving anything in Hong Kong. Not to mention the EK attraction of being a free human being again on layovers and on days off in Dubai.

EK pay is bad, no arguments there, the point is that on COS18 CX is now worse, and that’s saying something.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 03:21
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
Everyone I fly with that's looking at EK can't believe how sh*t the pay is. Grass isn't always greener but it's nice to pretend.
Pickup Truck

Do the maths! I did it for my personal circumstances against COS18, and it worked out I’ll be saving about $30k HKD per month on the base salary with company housing, Compared to the $8k HKD I’m saving now! Some people like yourself are too loyal to CX, enjoy your “competitive salary” that’ll leave you shackled in debt.

Do you know who else was loyal to CX? The based pilots who on average had 20 years vested in the company. Ask them about the return they got for their loyalty to the company.

Last edited by Jnr380; 8th Dec 2021 at 04:53.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 04:33
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Also compare apples with apples.
There’s no income tax in the ME, is there?
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 05:59
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If you think you can have a nice decent lifestyle in Hong Kong with under 100K a months you are fooling yourself. We are a couple with no kids and no expenses anywhere in the world. Also not living over the top, but just the same way I would live like in Oz or Europe, although your housing will never be the same unless you spend another 50K a months. Take kids in to account forget about the 100K. Its all easy to work out ,and who ever says otherwise got blinkers on !!!!!
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 21:43
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Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
If you think you can have a nice decent lifestyle in Hong Kong with under 100K a months you are fooling yourself. We are a couple with no kids and no expenses anywhere in the world. Also not living over the top, but just the same way I would live like in Oz or Europe, although your housing will never be the same unless you spend another 50K a months. Take kids in to account forget about the 100K. Its all easy to work out ,and who ever says otherwise got blinkers on !!!!!

​​​​​​Even before COVID 100k HKD a month is plenty for a couple with no kids. That's close to 13k USD per month. That will give you a very nice lifestyle even in NYC.

Unless you feel that you need to rent a 3 bedroom apartment in the mid levels and own a car.

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Old 9th Dec 2021, 00:03
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It's a good thing you and your partner don't have kids then...in the wrong occupation definitely. Or just simply trim your lifestyle costs.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 00:33
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Originally Posted by Climb150 View Post
​​​​​​Even before COVID 100k HKD a month is plenty for a couple with no kids. That's close to 13k USD per month. That will give you a very nice lifestyle even in NYC.

Unless you feel that you need to rent a 3 bedroom apartment in the mid levels and own a car.
I said "living like at home in a first world country". If you want to live in the city in a 300 square feet apartment thats not living. Any nice apartment or village house costs you 35K and up. Add another 10 for a car and utility's you already at 45. Pop down to Vietnam or Thailand for a long weekend and another 15K at least are gone. Now you already on 60. Now going out twice a week and you normal groceries at home gets you close to 100k. You have not even bought any clothing and not had a long overseas holiday either. If you say you dont need all that , you are right but then you not comparing your living standard to living in a first world country !!!
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 01:21
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Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
I said "living like at home in a first world country". If you want to live in the city in a 300 square feet apartment thats not living. Any nice apartment or village house costs you 35K and up. Add another 10 for a car and utility's you already at 45. Pop down to Vietnam or Thailand for a long weekend and another 15K at least are gone. Now you already on 60. Now going out twice a week and you normal groceries at home gets you close to 100k. You have not even bought any clothing and not had a long overseas holiday either. If you say you dont need all that , you are right but then you not comparing your living standard to living in a first world country !!!
15k for long weekend holidays to SE Asia every month? Pretty sure your friends back in your home country aren’t living with that sort of exuberance nor have the rostering to be able to do so. 40k a month on groceries and eating out? Maybe you should sort out your budgeting if that is how you are living. You are living better than 99% of people
in first world countries.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 02:21
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Originally Posted by noboloco View Post
15k for long weekend holidays to SE Asia every month? Pretty sure your friends back in your home country aren’t living with that sort of exuberance nor have the rostering to be able to do so. 40k a month on groceries and eating out? Maybe you should sort out your budgeting if that is how you are living. You are living better than 99% of people
in first world countries.
The difference is, in HK, you have absolutely zero desire to stay cooped-up in your crap apartment. This costs money. Also, kids cost an exorbitant amount in HK. Schooling is huge when you factor books, transport, extra-curriculars etc..

I’m not sure (nor am I concerned) what you class as a normal upbringing for a child, or standard of home life you would accept. I want my family to enjoy the things they would back home.

If I was home, I’d be living in a nice house with space, a garden, a garage etc. Complete apples to oranges. Schooling is free. Healthcare is trustworthy. Kids have space to play outside. They don’t need to live permanently on a phone screen (don’t get me started). My wife’s yoga/pilates monthly subscription would be the price of one session in HK. My groceries would be a third of the price, and far better. I don’t need to escape the country for some peace & quiet. I don’t need to maximise my time out of the house.

Even ‘nice’ properties in HK are atrocious. Look at the standard of the fixtures, tiling, plumbing, flooring… The standard of everything in my very ‘normal’ house back home is higher in every single regard. All for the price of a HK nano-flat.

HKers seem to have become accustomed to poor quality as a theme. Be that groceries, accommodation, children’s upbringings, air…

It isn’t worth it for me anymore. It will do for now because my options are limited. However, I’ll have a far better life on a 50% pay cut back home, so that is what I’ll be doing at the first opportunity. Nothing personal and no hard feelings. I enjoyed my time in HK pre-Covid. The pros outweighed the cons. Now it isn’t close. The company seem fairly content with this too, so win-win.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 03:03
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Originally Posted by Dingleberry Handpump View Post
The difference is, in HK, you have absolutely zero desire to stay cooped-up in your crap apartment. This costs money. Also, kids cost an exorbitant amount in HK. Schooling is huge when you factor books, transport, extra-curriculars etc..

I’m not sure (nor am I concerned) what you class as a normal upbringing for a child, or standard of home life you would accept. I want my family to enjoy the things they would back home.

If I was home, I’d be living in a nice house with space, a garden, a garage etc. Complete apples to oranges. Schooling is free. Healthcare is trustworthy. Kids have space to play outside. They don’t need to live permanently on a phone screen (don’t get me started). My wife’s yoga/pilates monthly subscription would be the price of one session in HK. My groceries would be a third of the price, and far better. I don’t need to escape the country for some peace & quiet. I don’t need to maximise my time out of the house.

Even ‘nice’ properties in HK are atrocious. Look at the standard of the fixtures, tiling, plumbing, flooring… The standard of everything in my very ‘normal’ house back home is higher in every single regard. All for the price of a HK nano-flat.

HKers seem to have become accustomed to poor quality as a theme. Be that groceries, accommodation, children’s upbringings, air…

It isn’t worth it for me anymore. It will do for now because my options are limited. However, I’ll have a far better life on a 50% pay cut back home, so that is what I’ll be doing at the first opportunity. Nothing personal and no hard feelings. I enjoyed my time in HK pre-Covid. The pros outweighed the cons. Now it isn’t close. The company seem fairly content with this too, so win-win.

You are so right , but some people just dont see it. At present a top level Captain basic salary after tax including housing at HKE is about 65 K HKD. Now if anybody can say that one can live nice on that I don't know anymore !!!
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