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New Second Officers on board?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

New Second Officers on board?

Old 14th Aug 2021, 13:28
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 51
Posts: 235
Well, by the time these mobs start hiring, you will be that busy with CX you won't have any time off to go to the interview. You won't have any leave either because cx have burnt all that ready for the big surge. Very few will leave. You will see. One thing for sure is the whinging will continue.
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 14:00
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Here and Everywhere
Posts: 197
if there is will, there is a way!
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 14:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 166
I’m not say the grass is greener in HKG but I can honestly say that the grass is fake in DXB! If/when EK hires I wish you all the best but don’t expect a huge improvement. I would only go “home”. None of your list entices me
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 14:51
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Here and Everywhere
Posts: 197
it’s not whether it entices you or not, it’s the different options available.
Some are better than CX some are Worse.
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 20:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: hong kong
Posts: 29
A captain whom I spoke with, who shall remain nameless, says that things will change in a few months and Cathay will be hiring again.
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Old 14th Aug 2021, 21:31
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 183
Did he also give you stock market advice?
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 03:28
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
Posts: 303
They are hiring the unemployed locals now, as they are the easy ones to scoop up.

The question remains however, will they plug the hole within this pool over the resignation rate, then entice foreigners/locals when the time comes. COS18, and the push to assimilate HK with the motherland might see immigration place a new focus on where the talent pool will come from.

Time to brush up on the mandarin.

Last edited by KABOY; 15th Aug 2021 at 11:56.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 04:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: hong kong
Posts: 29
I think they are prioritizing people who finished the course in Australia and didn't get a start date. Wonder when they will look at us in the holding pool who are also locals?
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 05:15
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GUAM
Posts: 9
Why would cx want to hire more SOs when they already have 500-600 of them, most of whom are long overdue for an upgrade as they are getting shafted by newly hired DEFOs.

Fact of the matter is, there isn't enough training resource/sectors to upgrade SOs anytime soon as they desperately try to recover from the pandemic and get people current again. DEFOs only need 4-12 sectors LFUS, while SOs need 60. The big pool of experienced, rated guys is what is going to fill the (small) void when people leave cx in the near future.

Personally, if I were a fresh cadet graduate or SO with no upgrade course in sight, I would be looking to go to Vietnam or Myanmar or anywhere that I can build some real hours and skills. Come back and apply for DEFO when I have 1500-2000 hours. I'd be far better off compared to my peers.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 07:54
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lonely planet
Posts: 58
You mean go to Vietnam, pay Vietjet or VNA 50k-90K USD for a A320 rating and work for free?

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Old 15th Aug 2021, 10:30
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Horley
Posts: 16
Itís not free ! Itís 500$ / month
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 14:25
  #32 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 259
Becky330

Long overdue for an upgrade? No, they are not overdue. They do not automatically qualify to be a JFO they have to earn it when the time comes and they can qualify. If that takes another 5 years then so be it. I know there is one rather fresh JFO complaining about not being allowed to go directly to FO pay. Entitled iCadets...

As for VN etc... Good luck, please tell me how you will do that? Do you know how applications from some of those companies are viewed by most airlines? They go straight to the trash as it is clear who has done P2F.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 15:49
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 321
I’m not sure how a fresh JFO complaining makes sense the only ranks now are the following:

SO1
SO2
FO1
FO2
CN1/2/3/4

There is no JFO pay it’s FO1 till +2400-3000hrs dependent on fleet.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 16:43
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GUAM
Posts: 9
That's just my own personal opinion. I would rather fly in a third world country for a few years than sit around as an SO for 10 years.

Sure it might not land me a job in the majors right away, but at least I would have picked up some skills and confidence to operate an aircraft.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 17:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In the Auzzie outback
Posts: 138
If you're talking about skill then my turboprop days were much harder than any of these widebody flights long or short haul.
But I understand. You scare yourself then with little passengers on board so you don't have too and you've experienced it when you have a lot.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 04:33
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: HK
Posts: 38
skychief1994

Save yourself a lot of trouble and do not believe anything you hear until it actually happens.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:03
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 8
Cathay are hiring... its just not pilots, its janitors to help clean up the mess they created!
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 02:05
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 647
Becky330
getting some real world experience before narrowing down to an airline job is a good idea IMHO.

In regards to CX numbers - we are MASSIVELY undermanned. Not for today - not for covid - but to get back to normal operations we will need over 1,000 pilots. Pick a date when we get back to normal flying - say 20August 2024 - I am sure some will find 3 years from now too optimistic as this is PPRuNe ;-) Over that 3 years we will lose, just on RA55/65 another 300+ - and out of all the rest of the pilots, if even 10-20% of the most vocal 'leavers' actually leave, that will be another few hundred gone, mostly from the FO/CN ranks

The category we are most short of is captains - the category we are least short of is SOs. But to get Captains you need to upgrade FOs - which means SOs need to be upgraded to replace them. We will need over 500 commands to get back to full strength - then another few hundred to replace RA55/65 retirements plus any others that leave pre RA. So could be as much as 800 CNs NEEDED over next 3 years- but how many can the airline deliver when the most it has ever trained in a year was a little over 100. But I am sure senior management, airline planning and HR know all this and have a handle on it (sarcasm alert). I suspect the 3rd floor know- but why would non pilots ever listen to pilots about pilot stuff?

So we will be doing a ton of training for the next few years (barring Covid 22 or a comet or GFC mark 2)
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 03:21
  #39 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 259
Numero,
Getting a P2F Bus job at a 3rd world carrier isn't exactly experience. It's killing the profession. Maybe they would be better going off to Africa and flogging around a Van in Maun before jumping onto a Dash/ATR etc to get real world experience. Wait until this CV comes across a real carriers desk and they laugh at why you did 3 years at VietJet and only logged 500hrs (that cost you 50k). P2F isn't respected anywhere. Just ask most of the British Ex-Lion Air guys who struggle to find much.
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Old 20th Aug 2021, 06:59
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 316
Numero Crunchero

A good post. In most companies, including CX, the managers only really care about their next bonus and their next promotion. The big bosses have said to stop spending money now, so the sycophants comply. There is no thought to the future.

I look forward to the time when carriers are recruiting and CX is forced to improve the smell of the commonly known as POS18. Our managers are happy enough with direct entry FOs and Captns. Will be interesting to see if anyone turns up when everyone worth anything in CX is looking for an exit.
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