Work Visa renewals
Saw a post on FB on one of the Australian quarantine groups that said something like this, if I may quote:
Don't know for sure which company she talks about but CX would be a good guess.
Im in Hong Kong, but Australian citizens.
Was hoping to travel to Sydney on the 10th with husband, 2.5yo and 4 week old. We have packed up our life here, sold everything and about to ship back what we have left and move out of our apartment.
Due to circumstances outside our control- we have expired Hong Kong visas. The immigration department here and the company my husband works for arent seeing eye to eye (we aren't the only family in this position, but in the mean time also have no access to basic public healthcare because of the expired visas), and they wont be renewed any time soon.
Immigration wont allow us to leave HK on our current expired visas - so we would need to move onto tourist visas to leave. Which means my husband can no longer receive a salary.
Im considering just rolling the kids and I onto the tourist visas so I can leave with them alone, and husband stay wait out a visa resolution here.
Was hoping to travel to Sydney on the 10th with husband, 2.5yo and 4 week old. We have packed up our life here, sold everything and about to ship back what we have left and move out of our apartment.
Due to circumstances outside our control- we have expired Hong Kong visas. The immigration department here and the company my husband works for arent seeing eye to eye (we aren't the only family in this position, but in the mean time also have no access to basic public healthcare because of the expired visas), and they wont be renewed any time soon.
Immigration wont allow us to leave HK on our current expired visas - so we would need to move onto tourist visas to leave. Which means my husband can no longer receive a salary.
Im considering just rolling the kids and I onto the tourist visas so I can leave with them alone, and husband stay wait out a visa resolution here.
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The CX guys I know have all been reapplying successfully over the last few months. Might be a loophole with CX? I heard rumours of the 3 month no further in a WhatsApp group last week though.
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At the moment 3 month visa extentions are only being given to those who can show immigration that they have upcoming duties. Those that have nothing but G days are out of luck and just have to sit tight with an expired visa until/if this whole thing gets sorted. Once expired it’s all catch 22; can’t get a visa unless you have work, can’t get work unless you have a visa.
Lots of guys sitting around right now that aren’t able to put their kids in HK schools at the moment, no access to public healthcare or use of medical insurance, can’t sign a new lease on an apartment etc. Also spouse can’t work unless their company is willing to sponsor them which most aren’t. Advised not to leave HK as wont be able to return on an expired visa. I’m on my second three month renewal now but I’m fortunate enough to have a very busy roster. Not sure there will be a third but then maybe it’s for the best and I will just go back home to be with my wife and kids permanently.
It’s clear foreigners aren’t really welcome here. This will become more and more evident in time. Why gamble a full career in HK for very inadequate pay living in a shoebox if you will get thrown out sometime down the road anyway, only to start a again in your home county. May as well do that now so you’re at least ahead by then.
In the mean while, getting any information from the company is like pulling teeth. It seems like a low priority for them or they don’t really care. Even if there is no update to report, at least state so in the newsletter so we know they haven’t forgotten about it or give a damn.
Lots of guys sitting around right now that aren’t able to put their kids in HK schools at the moment, no access to public healthcare or use of medical insurance, can’t sign a new lease on an apartment etc. Also spouse can’t work unless their company is willing to sponsor them which most aren’t. Advised not to leave HK as wont be able to return on an expired visa. I’m on my second three month renewal now but I’m fortunate enough to have a very busy roster. Not sure there will be a third but then maybe it’s for the best and I will just go back home to be with my wife and kids permanently.
It’s clear foreigners aren’t really welcome here. This will become more and more evident in time. Why gamble a full career in HK for very inadequate pay living in a shoebox if you will get thrown out sometime down the road anyway, only to start a again in your home county. May as well do that now so you’re at least ahead by then.
In the mean while, getting any information from the company is like pulling teeth. It seems like a low priority for them or they don’t really care. Even if there is no update to report, at least state so in the newsletter so we know they haven’t forgotten about it or give a damn.
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Yes it is a "Gotcha" if the Government and or Company do not, really, want you there . CX will just blame the Visa dept for being unable to renew the visa. Gove dept will blame CX for not showing that the employee is, actually working. A horrible, bad taste in the mouth way to end what was , once, a most enviable position.
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TimeToWhine,
Never forget why you came here. For the same reason I did. No company in our home countries wanted to employ us or didn’t think we were worth what Cathay thought we were worth.
It’s the same reason we stayed during the handover when many were leaving and property prices were plummeting. The same reason we stayed during the first “sign or be fired” in ‘99. The same reason we stayed during the 49er travesty. During the first SARS outbreak which affected Hong Kong worse than any other city. During the GFC and the company’s attempted attack on expat conditions leading to COS08. It’s the reason we signed COS18, a permanent and severe degradation to our conditions while management take a meager temporary cut.
Do not think you’re special or deserving of being treated with respect. The very reason we’re at CX is because we’re deserving of nothing more.
We are mercenaries, each and every one of us. As soon as the conditions, whether money or lifestyle, are better elsewhere we’ll leave.
You joined the company of the 49ers. You signed a sign or be fired contract not 5 months ago, the second time the company has done that. Yet you somehow think you’ll get a regular communication on a work visa? What does management have to do before you understand where you are and who you work for?
Yes, leaving is a very good option, just as it was for those that left before you giving you an opportunity that wasn’t available in your home country. But inevitably no opportunity comes without risk. Combine CX and Hong Kong and there’s plenty of risk v reward considerations.
Hong Kong isn’t the only country not renewing work visas for pilots. Australia is doing the same for 457 visa holders. A temporary work visa will never offer the same level of protections as citizenship does. It might appear to be xenophobic and it certainly can seem heartless, but it’s all part of every expatriates cost benefit equation.
Never forget why you came here. For the same reason I did. No company in our home countries wanted to employ us or didn’t think we were worth what Cathay thought we were worth.
It’s the same reason we stayed during the handover when many were leaving and property prices were plummeting. The same reason we stayed during the first “sign or be fired” in ‘99. The same reason we stayed during the 49er travesty. During the first SARS outbreak which affected Hong Kong worse than any other city. During the GFC and the company’s attempted attack on expat conditions leading to COS08. It’s the reason we signed COS18, a permanent and severe degradation to our conditions while management take a meager temporary cut.
Do not think you’re special or deserving of being treated with respect. The very reason we’re at CX is because we’re deserving of nothing more.
We are mercenaries, each and every one of us. As soon as the conditions, whether money or lifestyle, are better elsewhere we’ll leave.
You joined the company of the 49ers. You signed a sign or be fired contract not 5 months ago, the second time the company has done that. Yet you somehow think you’ll get a regular communication on a work visa? What does management have to do before you understand where you are and who you work for?
Yes, leaving is a very good option, just as it was for those that left before you giving you an opportunity that wasn’t available in your home country. But inevitably no opportunity comes without risk. Combine CX and Hong Kong and there’s plenty of risk v reward considerations.
Hong Kong isn’t the only country not renewing work visas for pilots. Australia is doing the same for 457 visa holders. A temporary work visa will never offer the same level of protections as citizenship does. It might appear to be xenophobic and it certainly can seem heartless, but it’s all part of every expatriates cost benefit equation.
Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 31st Mar 2021 at 17:38.
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I think Hong Kong has so far been the best place to be as an expat, at least our visas have been somewhat renewed albeit only for 3 months. In any other country, our visas would have already been denied especially with so many local pilots on the streets right now jobless. Let’s hope CX continues to have enough power over the government so we’ll get to keep our jobs while this whole thing blows over. It doesn’t help that those local boys are trying their best to lobby the immigration department to follow the local employment policy strictly. Thankfully immigration dept seems to be ignoring them!
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The final paragraph of a government press release attached:
In view of the local economic downturn and rising unemployment
rate amid the COVID-19 pandemic, the Government understands the
public's concerns and reaffirms the established policy of upholding
priority employment of the local workforce. In recent months, the
ImmD has been closely monitoring the employment situation of
different industries, including the aviation industry as referred
to in the question. In view of the latest employment situation of
the local aviation industry, the ImmD has, after consultation with
the relevant bureaux and departments, critically scrutinised
applications from the industry made under GEP and ASMTP for
employment visa/entry permit and extension of stay. In fact, the
ImmD did not approve any new employment visas/entry permits for
non-local pilots to work in Hong Kong in the past three months.
Best of luck to all regardless of which side of the fence you sit.
In view of the local economic downturn and rising unemployment
rate amid the COVID-19 pandemic, the Government understands the
public's concerns and reaffirms the established policy of upholding
priority employment of the local workforce. In recent months, the
ImmD has been closely monitoring the employment situation of
different industries, including the aviation industry as referred
to in the question. In view of the latest employment situation of
the local aviation industry, the ImmD has, after consultation with
the relevant bureaux and departments, critically scrutinised
applications from the industry made under GEP and ASMTP for
employment visa/entry permit and extension of stay. In fact, the
ImmD did not approve any new employment visas/entry permits for
non-local pilots to work in Hong Kong in the past three months.
Best of luck to all regardless of which side of the fence you sit.
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what a load of BS ! SWH clearly has a few loose screws. You DO NOT have to undergo a new type rating if you already have one to work for CX. There is no such thing as a KA type rating. It’s a 320 rating done by KA. There were former KA crew who went to AHK on the 330. They did not have to undergo a new type rating. They did a OCC to be trained on AHK aircraft.
those who were employed by KA still have valid ratings and licenses and if there is a void as a result of non renewals of visas, the former KA crew should be top of the pecking order. They are the most experienced narrow body drivers in HK and familiar with China ops.
swh... you really are a half wit aren’t you ...
those who were employed by KA still have valid ratings and licenses and if there is a void as a result of non renewals of visas, the former KA crew should be top of the pecking order. They are the most experienced narrow body drivers in HK and familiar with China ops.
swh... you really are a half wit aren’t you ...
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swh
I think your confused, an ex Ka pilot or any airline pilot anywhere in the world will always have an ATPL/CPL once they have earned it. It isn't restricted to one airline (unless you were an MPL cadet) it can be used at any airline (might need to do a conversion if going to another country) where you are correct although the way you say it is wrong is regarding type ratings and being a qualified airline pilot for that company!
If a former KA 320 or 330 pilot were to be hired at CX or HKA/HKE then yes you are right they would have to redo some of the training programme at the airline they are joining (Indoc, ground school, sims) however CX could apply to the CAD to have a short course done for them a lot like how the DEFOs at cx do shorter courses than the cadets.
I think your confused, an ex Ka pilot or any airline pilot anywhere in the world will always have an ATPL/CPL once they have earned it. It isn't restricted to one airline (unless you were an MPL cadet) it can be used at any airline (might need to do a conversion if going to another country) where you are correct although the way you say it is wrong is regarding type ratings and being a qualified airline pilot for that company!
If a former KA 320 or 330 pilot were to be hired at CX or HKA/HKE then yes you are right they would have to redo some of the training programme at the airline they are joining (Indoc, ground school, sims) however CX could apply to the CAD to have a short course done for them a lot like how the DEFOs at cx do shorter courses than the cadets.
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SWH
Maybe you should have a look at AIC 24 / 20 dated 05 November 2020.
Title is "FACILITATION TO HONG KONG PROFESSIONAL PILOT’S LICENCE HOLDERS RENEWAL OF AIRCRAFT RATING AND INSTRUMENT RATING"
Maybe you should have a look at AIC 24 / 20 dated 05 November 2020.
Title is "FACILITATION TO HONG KONG PROFESSIONAL PILOT’S LICENCE HOLDERS RENEWAL OF AIRCRAFT RATING AND INSTRUMENT RATING"
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this is all accurate, however the fact remains an ex Ka pilot could be trained to be a cx pilot! They could even be trained quicker than doing an upgrade on a current cx SO to be FOs.
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And of course KA pilots were trained in the CX FTC. Cathay has all their training records, they were Cathay Group pilots. They deserve their jobs back if local/PR in preference to those who haven’t done their seven.
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Sadly the KA guys and girls jobs are gone forever, KA has gone!
At the end of the day KA pilots and cabin crew were not CX pilots or cabin crew the fact that they worked for a regional/subsidiary is irrelevant in determining if they should get jobs at Cathay Mainline or HKE. This whole thing applies just as equally to a redundant HKA pilot as it does an ex KA pilot.
The ISSUE here is that there are people working as airline pilots in HKG for various HKG companies on work permits, when there are qualified/capable people who do not require work-permits in HKG who are currently unemployed and would like to work as an airline pilot again. After all I am sure everyone would be just as passionate about this if Ka were still around and HKA had a lot of unemployed PR holders on the street wanting jobs......right?
At the end of the day KA pilots and cabin crew were not CX pilots or cabin crew the fact that they worked for a regional/subsidiary is irrelevant in determining if they should get jobs at Cathay Mainline or HKE. This whole thing applies just as equally to a redundant HKA pilot as it does an ex KA pilot.
The ISSUE here is that there are people working as airline pilots in HKG for various HKG companies on work permits, when there are qualified/capable people who do not require work-permits in HKG who are currently unemployed and would like to work as an airline pilot again. After all I am sure everyone would be just as passionate about this if Ka were still around and HKA had a lot of unemployed PR holders on the street wanting jobs......right?
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Who's flying CX A321 NEOs these days, Is it the ex-KA pilots who transferred to CX as STCs?
How much training did they have to do before they could fly the repainted aircraft?
I believe it's none and on the contrary they are probably the ones who signed the AR/IR for the first A320 CX pilots.
With CAD approval anything can be done, probably same with Immigration approval,
Let's wait and see what's happening next, maybe a bit of redundancy in CX so that PR can be rehired quicker when pilots will be needed.
How much training did they have to do before they could fly the repainted aircraft?
I believe it's none and on the contrary they are probably the ones who signed the AR/IR for the first A320 CX pilots.
With CAD approval anything can be done, probably same with Immigration approval,
Let's wait and see what's happening next, maybe a bit of redundancy in CX so that PR can be rehired quicker when pilots will be needed.
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LLLQNH
this is where you are wrong. The jobs are still there but it’s being transferred to pilots in CX some of whom do not have PR status and as long as there are fully qualified pilots in HK, they should be considered as pe the immigration requirement for visa renewal.
I think the non renewals would be a gift to cathay as they can cut down the man power as they please without offering redundancy pay and when the market picks up again they can just tap off the local supply of pilots when required.
this is where you are wrong. The jobs are still there but it’s being transferred to pilots in CX some of whom do not have PR status and as long as there are fully qualified pilots in HK, they should be considered as pe the immigration requirement for visa renewal.
I think the non renewals would be a gift to cathay as they can cut down the man power as they please without offering redundancy pay and when the market picks up again they can just tap off the local supply of pilots when required.