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Work Visa renewals

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Work Visa renewals

Old 5th Mar 2021, 07:14
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 601
about the pilots coming up to their PR, i.e. less than 7 years in the Cathay Group pilot seats
Not quite true, plenty of CX guys on bases. In some cases they are now in HKG, but for less than 7 years, following base closures. They may have “paid their dues” and “contributed to society’ (ie full HK income tax and accumulated seniority) for 15/20+ years, and yet they don’t have a PR either.
main_dog is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 08:05
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Absolutely correct, and I know quite a few of them too.
But I think you are missing the point and they were not the ones AdB29 were referring to.

If they are, I fully agree and stand corrected - these guys have my full sympathy too.
Although, contrary to quite a few senior pilots sacrificed from KA and still residing in HKG, these guys are probably not inclined to take a 320 F/O job with HKE - of course all depending on the circumstances making them leave their basing in the first place.

Stone Temple Pilot is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 08:50
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 345
You guys all worry too much ! The terms and conditions at HKE are really an insult to the pilot community living in Hong Kong. So I would not worry too much, as I guess most guys will look for greener pastures once the industry picks up. If they are not then I don't know anymore !
volare_737 is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 09:57
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
No, AdB29 - read it again - I said "contrary to quite a few senior pilots sacrificed from KA and still residing in HKG, these guys are probably not inclined to take a 320 F/O job with HKE" - in other words, while your based colleagues may not be super interested in this job (due to the fact that they would have an overseas passport to live and work in their home country), many locals here would be dying to get even an F/O job with HKE - their alternative now is a desk job at 20K/month or drive a KMB bus.
In fact many I know who are still in HKG (it is their home after all!) have zero income for the moment, and haven't had that for 3 and a half months since being thrown under that bus (a bus that seemed far bigger than a KMB double-decker!).

I would NOT want a junior HKE F/O to loose his or her job for a senior guy who "won't even accept those conditions". But I firmly believe that the PR holder should be given the opportunity. The junior HKE/CX F/O has less of a home here than someone who has spent the last 7 years plus here or indeed the whole life.

From the immigration website:
"the applicant has a confirmed offer of employment and is employed in a job relevant to his academic qualifications or work experience that cannot be readily taken up by the local work force;"
Stone Temple Pilot is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 10:59
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 43
Could be worse I guess, like if you were an Aussie based Pilot, completely dumped by the company today. No pay check until the schedule returns to pre covid levels ......Hope you can drive a truck !
Busbitch is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 12:42
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 354
Unfortunately the Aussie guys are late to the truck jobs. They were taken long ago by QF and VA international guys all without a paycheck too.
Harbour Dweller is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 16:05
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 83
Sorry to hear that Busbitch. Are the based guys being offered redundancy as an alternative? I know its not for everyone but surely the company must give an option for redundancy payment, or is zero pay the new way of sacking people without making them redundant?
cabbages is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 18:08
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL340
Posts: 50
That would be illegal in Europe. I don't know about Oz law, but I would've thought it may be similar to UK law.
In the UK, you can claim Redundancy in this situation.
FlyingNun is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 18:21
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Usually Somewhere Else
Posts: 228
No redundancy options offered. No right of return to Hkg allowed, despite the company seeking more “volunteers” for the closed loops; Aus based pilots are not allowed to volunteer. A one liner in the bottom of the company email mentioning the peer assistance network to tick the duty of care requirement.
flyboy007 is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2021, 19:00
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 65
It's very simple really - close all the bases, force them all to return to HKG on POS18 as (an option B to redundancy), and no one in their right bloody mind will, because you'd be an absolute lunatic to take that offer. Easy cull. Get it over with.

Hong Kong is not sustainable on COS18 unless you're living with your mum sipping noodles.

Most of my mates are Dragon and I envy them now. A quick slit to the throat, and move on, as opposed to a painful drawn out death, which we're going through at Cathay.

Do I agree with it, of course not. But Cathay is dead in the water. It's finished. If you haven't already planned your exit strategy, like all the HKG based pilots are working actively on, then more fool you.

Cathay is dead. Get out now. No sympathy from me for all the guys kicking their feet up for 12 months on 50 or 80 percent pay. Sorry.
Flying Clog is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 00:33
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 43
Flying Clog, I hope I get to meet you in person one day, preferably when my children are not around....Also I would take a redundancy immediately if offered.
Busbitch is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 00:56
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 820

It's legal in Australia, under the Fair Work Act 2009. The legislation allows employers to stand down employees in certain circumstances if they cannot be usefully employed, including "for any cause for which the employer cannot reasonably be held responsible". The employer is not required to make payments to the affected employees during the stand down period. There is no requirement for the employer to offer redundancy, nor is there any provision for the employee to claim such.
BuzzBox is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 07:47
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 83
Buzz box, Busbitch, I’m appalled at this. Is there a time limit on this zero pay or is it open ended? I’m not trying to stir but Is the AoA providing financial support? Flying Clog does not speak for me or anyone else I know. For what it’s worth, you will always have my support.
cabbages is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 09:02
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 183
Flying Clog

Sounds to me like you are probably on the freighter fleet. 'i'm alright jack!' comes to mind.
Oasis is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 09:21
  #35 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Honkers
Posts: 12
This is what I can’t understand, it’s nit I don’t want to, but all this doesn’t add up.

So, I’m employed and have a contract till 60. But my working visa is only for 3 years and is expiring. My company (indecently is the sponsor) assists with the paperwork and we apply (it’s both that are involved) and the application goes to Immigration.
1. I’ve been a good boy, paid my taxes, didn’t get into trouble etc
2. Company sponsors me etc.

result: immigration give me 3months only and subsequently nada!

If something has changed, shouldn’t the immigration dept announce in the interest of the public what they intend to do?

it’s not about CX, UO, HX etc...this impact all of no PR here trying to earn an honest buck.

I understand that companies are in a dilema and want to blame the employee that they’ve failed to maintain a work visa and get fired (cheap solutions). They should really fight for their employees, they should care... it’s not easy to replace anyone in a company. It’s not about being type rated and ready to go, there’s more to it in the interest of safety and the operators culture.

on the other hand, a few guys who are really caught up in this dilema, syndicate and get some good law form together and contest the precedence that’s now become a norm.
Donblock is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 09:42
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 666
If he’s on the freighter then “luck of the draw” comes to mind.
Fly747 is online now  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 13:56
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 151

no limit... can go on until there's a reasonable challenge to the company's case
hyg is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 16:00
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 11
Same tokens to KA local cadets, company paid million dollars EACH for training but end up failing everyone of them. While expats is even more expensive to maintain, I doubt they would really care.
852pilot is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 16:17
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Happy Valley
Age: 46
Posts: 43
Oh the irony....


Just remind me how much support you offered the freighter guys when you were struggling with your 2.5 LH flights a month on the Barbie jet....

And you lot seriously wonder why the mediocre Swire Princes and Princesses run rings round you.😂
Table For 1 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2021, 17:21
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 65
Oasis, I'm not only 'alright', but saving your bacon after decades of abuse as a dirty freighter pilot, holding the line, not acknowledging OCNs while you lot kicked back collecting overtime every month.

FOs on the barbie jet were earning more than Captains on the 747 for years.

So no sympathy from me. Best thing that could ever happen now is that Cathay drops the passenger operation and let's all the pax pilots go, and CX goes ahead as a standalone freighter operation or joins forces with Air Hong Kong/DHL.

No tears will be shed for the based pax pilots, or the ones in HKG for that matter.

Flying Clog is offline  

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