Round 2 layoffs in February or March
From my understanding of the Mainland pilots issue from way back, the company were told by the then CAAC in no uncertain terms that they were not to recruit from China. The mainland carriers were having enough trouble recruiting staff to develop their own airlines, at RMB35,000 a month, without the competition of HK.
The pilots I met in Beijing around the year 2000 spoke excellent English and had the same spectrum of ability and experience as any other country. They would have been an asset to CX.
The pilots I met in Beijing around the year 2000 spoke excellent English and had the same spectrum of ability and experience as any other country. They would have been an asset to CX.
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So from ‘right sized’ to now another 900 pilots going. Not sure about that one. 777 doesn’t even have 300 SO’s and there would be very few Captains left.
I get this crew quarantine is a huge set back but not sure I can take those numbers seriously.
I get this crew quarantine is a huge set back but not sure I can take those numbers seriously.
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Long term leave without pay is exactly what a layoff is. Layoff and redundant are exactly the same term. It's also called Reduction In Force. Different terms for exactly the same thing. All include the possibility of recall at some future time.
So with all that cleared up, you're basically saying cx will say "either take a layoff voluntarily or we will... lay you off anyway" ?
Sounds Like typical cathay silliness.
Long term leave without pay is exactly what a layoff is. Layoff and redundant are exactly the same term. It's also called Reduction In Force. Different terms for exactly the same thing. All include the possibility of recall at some future time.
So with all that cleared up, you're basically saying cx will say "either take a layoff voluntarily or we will... lay you off anyway" ?
Sounds Like typical cathay silliness.
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The issue with a long term lwop/furlough is that no airline will hire you as they will consider the fact that you will return to your original company as soon as possible. That makes any investment in you worthless for them.
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VforVENDETTA
Hi,
I don't think you understand certain definitions.
A layoff or redundancy situation will leave the pilot with zero attachment to the airline. Leave with out pay still leaves the pilot with his years of service, insurance (for now), staff travel (for now).
There is a massive difference. Just keep reading the above paragraph untill it clicks.
Hi,
I don't think you understand certain definitions.
A layoff or redundancy situation will leave the pilot with zero attachment to the airline. Leave with out pay still leaves the pilot with his years of service, insurance (for now), staff travel (for now).
There is a massive difference. Just keep reading the above paragraph untill it clicks.
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Curry Lamb
Cathay was NEVER short of crew. EVER. It's a wet dream, a fantasy, a fugazi, a pprune urban myth handed over from generation to generation, kept alive by ignorance, wishful thinking, delusion and Cxorcist. And they NEVER will be.
Cathay was NEVER short of crew. EVER. It's a wet dream, a fantasy, a fugazi, a pprune urban myth handed over from generation to generation, kept alive by ignorance, wishful thinking, delusion and Cxorcist. And they NEVER will be.
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I think the fact that different English speaking countries use different words for the same things is lost on you. For instance, the word redundant is not used in the American version of English language the same as the word layoff is not in the England english. Examples are too numerous to list. ALL of those companies that use the word redundant vs layoff WILL be calling those who have been made redundant before they hire off the street again. Perfect and very recent example is Emirates. Another closer to home is cathay itself. After having made redundant a very small number of pilots back in October, they did recall some of them back to work. So no, when you're made redundant, you're not the same as fired. You're just sent home without pay until further notice, which may or may not ever come and you may or may not decide to come back. This is exactly how a layoff works in the US. I've worked under different contracts in different parts of the world for too damn long and this is how it works. They all have their own silly language to say the same things.
The breakeven calculation most airlines use when hiring pilots is if you stay for at least 2 years it's been worth the training costs for them to hire you. So if they think the chances of you being recalled and going back are not likely in the next 2 years, yes they will still hire you.
I think the fact that different English speaking countries use different words for the same things is lost on you. For instance, the word redundant is not used in the American version of English language the same as the word layoff is not in the England english. Examples are too numerous to list. ALL of those companies that use the word redundant vs layoff WILL be calling those who have been made redundant before they hire off the street again. Perfect and very recent example is Emirates. Another closer to home is cathay itself. After having made redundant a very small number of pilots back in October, they did recall some of them back to work. So no, when you're made redundant, you're not the same as fired. You're just sent home without pay until further notice, which may or may not ever come and you may or may not decide to come back. This is exactly how a layoff works in the US. I've worked under different contracts in different parts of the world for too damn long and this is how it works. They all have their own silly language to say the same things.
The breakeven calculation most airlines use when hiring pilots is if you stay for at least 2 years it's been worth the training costs for them to hire you. So if they think the chances of you being recalled and going back are not likely in the next 2 years, yes they will still hire you.
CX isn’t a career airline anymore, back in the 1980s it was a dream job and a pilot who was fortunate enough to get in would expect to stay until retirement.
Now it’s like the Middle East, a place you go if you have to but you don’t really want to. Post pandemic, they will be calling people back, and these people will come if they don’t have any better option. They will still get pilots, even QR manage that, but the airline won’t be on the career radar of someone working for a low cost carrier in their home country.
A regional base with EasyJet where you have a lower cost of living, decent career progression, a reasonable income and are in your own bed at night. Who would give that up for the toxic living and working environment of HKG and CX ?
Now it’s like the Middle East, a place you go if you have to but you don’t really want to. Post pandemic, they will be calling people back, and these people will come if they don’t have any better option. They will still get pilots, even QR manage that, but the airline won’t be on the career radar of someone working for a low cost carrier in their home country.
A regional base with EasyJet where you have a lower cost of living, decent career progression, a reasonable income and are in your own bed at night. Who would give that up for the toxic living and working environment of HKG and CX ?
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Before you hand in your notice, you might want to check the after tax salary for a First Officer at Easyjet first.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 19th Feb 2021 at 00:07.
Good call Saul
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Look, it is about 2700 net. Get real. Forget quick commands too, we are living in a different world now, you will be lucky to get a job interview at all.
On top of that it is unrealistic to assume other airlines will just kerp their pre-Covid packages, hard to see O'Leary overlooking the daily truck load of applications. Of course they will adapt to the new market.
Don't shoot the messenger.
On top of that it is unrealistic to assume other airlines will just kerp their pre-Covid packages, hard to see O'Leary overlooking the daily truck load of applications. Of course they will adapt to the new market.
Don't shoot the messenger.