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Cathay Bases Closure - Options?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Cathay Bases Closure - Options?

Old 7th Nov 2020, 00:49
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by The FUB View Post
Why can't 777 NAM pilots convert to 747?
Because the 747 fleet size did not change.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 01:24
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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100+ 777 to 747 conversions in HKG at the moment
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 02:09
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly, so too many already.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 03:43
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The FUB View Post
100+ 777 to 747 conversions in HKG at the moment
Need to get the monthly flying task in line with PoS18.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 04:28
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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yep so NAM based 747 crew work 84+ hrs HKG based work 35- hrs, you couldn't make this crap up
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 07:42
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Long live the bases!

There seem to be those on this forum that WANT the bases closed. Not sure why? Most likely jealously.

Cathay has always used the bases as a dangling carrot. That is both as a recruiting tool for deluded joiners, or as a glimmer of hope for trapped ex-pats who thought they would have been home many years ago.

They may well be cheaper for Cathay than a HK based pilot, but if so, not by much. From a cost of living point of view, there is no comparison. HK is unsustainable for the majority of ex-pats wanting a certain standard of living. For some reason, Cathay has a reluctance about putting people on the bases. I have always thought it was a reluctance to deal with first-world labour protections. Having said that, those very labour protections are looking like biting the based in the arse.

My prediction (depending on the laws of each base): Redundancy offered or return to HK on COS18. Bases kept open, but unmanned. When everything settles down, base positions offered again on reduced terms.

It is a rumour network after all.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 11:17
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by The FUB View Post
100+ 777 to 747 conversions in HKG at the moment
Once the conversions are complete, CX can also close the freighter bases. GMA wants all pilots on COS18.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 02:15
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by arse View Post
Long live the bases!

My prediction (depending on the laws of each base): Redundancy offered or return to HK on COS18. Bases kept open but unmanned
Need to close a base to force pilots back to HK.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 02:37
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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CX may decide to close the base, but the fact is that even on COS18, the current freighter base contracts are actually cheaper for the company.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 03:28
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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You haven't realized yet how bad cos 18 is. I don't blame you, took me a while as well.
The clue is to look at the minimum hours and understand this is what you will fly the next years to come.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 05:03
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Will IB Fayed View Post
Need to close a base to force pilots back to HK.
Not sure if I agree. Pilots would not be FORCED back to HK, but given a choice. For example: In the UK, furlough or return to HK on COS18. In Australia, job-keeper or return to HK on COS18. Certainly not a great choice, but not FORCED.

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Old 8th Nov 2020, 06:18
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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....and the band played Waltzing Matilda......

Have you kids finished rearranging the deck chairs yet?

CX will do whatever they can get away with in whatever manner they can dream up. None of the countries hosting a base will be brazen enough to support the based workers plight when CX can rightly claim massive financial distress.

Never miss the opportunity in a crisis
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 06:56
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I remember the Dragonair freighter base in Manchester. It was closed with 2 weeks notice . and notice of base closure was emailed to all.
Repatriation to hk or be fired was the option for crew. All were on uk based contracts.
The 747400s went to cx . The classics to the desert. No one challenged the legality of this under uk law. All accepted it like lambs .
No one in cx cared .
Now you reap what was sowed 10 yrs ago.
agreeing to Slashing of your own terms & conditions , unbelievable times.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 07:10
  #54 (permalink)  
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I thought the MAN base closure ended up in either Redundancy pay or enhanced relocation package.
The Swiss and French bases the same.
From all the “Helpful” replies above, I can plan my course of action should CX try any unusual tactic or circumvent the law.
They will use COVID as an excuse to reduce Terms and Conditions, claiming legitimately that business is suffering, but non the less, they have to comply with the law of the land.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 07:21
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Must have missed out on the Swiss base.
Man was a travesty. Some returned; a privileged few. And had enhanced rostering etc.
Think the band went down playing “Nearer my God to thee” on the Titanic ?
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 08:13
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by The FUB View Post
Why can't 777 NAM pilots convert to 747?
This is a good question. Why indeed?

Why is the only fleet to be fully operational being overmanned in one area and undermanned in another? I suspect probably for the same reason that COS18 was adjusted mid year to remove the LIFO redundancy clause. It seemed a rather peculiar item to be concerned about particularly as they weren’t recruiting, so there was hardly a pressing need to adjust what was essentially an irrelevance. In hindsight the relevance became clear.

It seems clear that management themselves don’t know at this particular time what the future structure of the company will look like. How could they? No one knows what the short to medium term future of aviation will look like. But it also seems clear that management are structuring the company in such a way that when they do decide to act again then the less constraints on their options provides the greatest degree of flexibility with their decision making.

Will the next cut (if required) be to a particular rank? Fleet? Base? Perceived individual trouble maker? Hopefully we never find out. But management are putting the building blocks in place to be more “creative” than they could have under the legacy arrangements.

Oh, and don’t think management’s actions are based purely from a financial viewpoint. They’ve been gifted a once in a lifetime opportunity to restructure the company with what essentially amounts to blank sheet of paper in terms of labour conditions. There won’t be any missed opportunities this time.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 09:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Originally Posted by arse View Post
Not sure if I agree. Pilots would not be FORCED back to HK, but given a choice. For example: In the UK, furlough or return to HK on COS18. In Australia, job-keeper or return to HK on COS18. Certainly not a great choice, but not FORCED.
Sounds like a very likely outcome in my opinion. Choice offered remain on your base on almost zero pay/unpaid leave (other than state support) or take a voluntary return to Hong Kong on Cos18! Talk about a difficult choice, stay on your base slot on no pay for goodness knows how long or come back to HKG/come to HKG on a terrible package never to return to your base again.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 10:07
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
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It would be better if you all would read up on labour law in Europe/US/OZ instead of speculating a bunch of nonsense on here.
You would find out that most of your 'wishful thinking' doom scenarios for the bases are simply not possible and/or way more expensive than just leaving things the way they are.

There is absolutely no advantage for opening up base slots for COS18 guys, so if you are HK based now, you will be forever.

Bases might be shut down at some point, that is true, but LIFO will still apply so based guys will always have the choice of coming to HK for a while...
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 11:40
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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CX could close the bases, then reopen them when things recover. Create new COS18s for the bases, but within the new productivity guidelines(pay/promotion), bases will be awarded on hours flown(monthly/yearly) and NOT seniority. Total sick days taken will also be considered.
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Old 25th Nov 2020, 16:12
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
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Business Check In

I hope I'm reading too much into this but, why has Augustus written that 'All major restructure announcements to those impacted in Hong Kong have been made....'? Does this not imply further restructuring on the Bases to come?
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