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Displaced Local Crew

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Displaced Local Crew

Old 6th Dec 2020, 12:17
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 194
Very unfortunate for some if these rumours are true.. but also common procedure in many countries, isn't it? The US and Brits even voted two very peculiar individuals as their leaders just for these simplistic "patriotic" sentiments ( get "control" back, build a wall, my country first etc). You reap what you sow one could think...
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 12:49
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 84
Not sure that's an entirely fair comment Sam. In the UK for example, out of over 3 million EU citizens who applied for settled status, only 9 (yes, that's right - 9) have been rejected. The nine had shown ' serious or persistent criminality' , so I think that is a fair call. The UK is also expected to allow up to 3 million Hong Kong citizens to settle in the UK. That's hardly the act of a xenophobic nationalist government leader.
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:28
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
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Quote. 'Boris Johnson offers 3 million Hong Kong citizens refuge in the UK.' In case you hadn't heard. Sam Ting is correct, as usual. Boris is indeed peculiar! I guess its perfectly ok to counter Sam's alleged xenophobia in the West with Xi-nophobia in the East.
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:38
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/thousands-eu-citizens-denied-right-stay-uk-brexit-10893072



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/u...ork-visas.html



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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:46
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
Posts: 40
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

So much for 'Same team same dream'. The Uyghurs are just as Chinese as you are Sam.
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 14:57
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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I struggle to see the connection between a genocide in China and the rejection of a work permit in Hong Kong. Makes no sense whatsoever actually.

PS For the record, I would like to see work permits issued. My point is that nationalism is a double-edged sword. I am not promoting xenophobia, I am saying the exact opposite, nationalism is promoting xenophobia. I am always stunned and slightly confused sitting on the flight deck next to an immigrant in favour of anti-immigration rules at home.

Cabbage, fair point. If HK nationals get work permits in the UK this should be mutual. Just check your numbers, thousands of EU nationals have been rejected, not only 9 as you claimed. Plus without any doubt it will be much harder to work in the UK for anybody from the continent in the future.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 6th Dec 2020 at 15:14.
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 15:08
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
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Sorry Sam, you're correct again. Just some 'simplistic "patriotic" sentiments' that's all.
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 15:29
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Very unfortunate for some if these rumours are true.. but also common procedure in many countries, isn't it? The US and Brits even voted two very peculiar individuals as their leaders just for these simplistic "patriotic" sentiments ( get "control" back, build a wall, my country first etc). You reap what you sow one could think...
Just to reiterate what you put on the record before you were scrutinised. ;-)
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Old 6th Dec 2020, 21:20
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
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While the issue over pilot work visas may be seen as xenophobic, itís certainly not a conspiracy. The immigration departmentís policy is on record for all to see. For the first time in living memory there is an excess of qualified, suitable pilots in Hong Kong and the department would seem to be following that policy. We can debate endlessly over whether they enjoy such action, but it makes little material difference.

So what are the options for the company, union and affected crew. Opening up bases is a workaround but would create a number of knock on issues.

Many of the expat crew donít have the right to live and work in the current base areas. HKE and HKA currently donít even have bases.
Virtually all the bases are on some version of a stand down. As such there are restrictions on those base companies recruiting ever more pilots to simply be immediately stood down.

Does employing ex CX or KA crew into Hong Kong also breach the base companies stand down provisions? If the companyís Hong Kong based crew is insufficient for the task, should stood down crew be utilized prior to employing new crew? Particularly as the company seem to have implemented a freeze on based crew relocating to Hong Kong. Can see a number of legal actions here in first world jurisdictions. Not sure that would strengthen the viability of the bases though.

As for crew applying for PR status, the requirements of the GEM no longer apply however there are different requirements. Obviously the 7 years of continuously residing in Hong Kong, but also the requirement to prove youíve made Hong Kong your permanent home. It will be interesting to see if the immigration director continues to just rubber stamp that last requirement in regards to obvious commuters, many of whom donít have so much as a residential lease. Then weíll see if itís just bureaucracy doing itís job, or thereís been a change to the mindset. That would certainly fan the flames of the xenophobic debate.

Would seem management is once again in a hole of its own making that could have been avoided with dialogue, negotiation and compromise, yet I fully expect to see them continue to dig rather than ask for a helping hand out of the mess. I hope Iím wrong.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 00:19
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
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Would seem management is once again in a hole of its own making that could have been avoided with dialogue, negotiation and compromise, yet I fully expect to see them continue to dig rather than ask for a helping hand out of the mess. I hope I’m wrong.
Not for long, remember the government is a shareholder now. They have a vested interest, and all departments will have to look after these interests. The eyes and ears(CX Government appointed directors) will be telling Mr.Chan '"immigration being difficult"

HK Immigration is just another department being led from above...

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...eeks-hong-kong
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 00:56
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
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The Governmentís interests also include keeping locals employed in preference to foreigners whether it be in HK or on a base. There are still far too many pilots for too few flights and an entire fleet virtually grounded. Lots of pain and confusion still to come.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 04:40
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
I don't expect any rush in getting this sorted. Cx don't want to hire any pilots ex KA or anyone else at the moment and still have too many of their own pilots. I expect those with expired work-permits to be Sent home on zero pay basically stood down until further notice. This situation actually works well for cx currently.

In the longer term maybe expect to see some redundant pilots offered interviews and a few perhaps one or two positions with HKE as they ramp up to smooth over the waters with immigration.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 05:46
  #233 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 202
UO are overstocked so I am guessing the lack of permits may just help them there. The only one looking for people is AHK, the 20 CP and 20 FO could have easily come out of the KA 330 pool.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 07:42
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Planet Earth
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Originally Posted by hyg View Post
Curry Lamb

If you go the extreme conspiracy theory, this might be the beginning of ousting most western expats out of HK...they won't completely eliminate westerners, just as they allow westerners in SZ, Shanghai and Beijing in many industries... But once they oust many of the westerners this round, when the next 'boom' comes, Cathay and other companies like banks etc need to hire staff from overseas, they will be told to prove they can't find people from the North first....
Very true, what is wrong with that? At best Hong Kong. in time, might be considered as a colony of China, otherwise a mere province of China, unlike the French who habitually nationalised their most juicy colonies.

Last edited by Bueno Hombre; 7th Dec 2020 at 08:09.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 11:01
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
Posts: 233
So glad I never had to work with you sad miserable prats.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 09:20
  #236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 1st Floor
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It appears AHK will be recruiting, but cautiously, and reading in between the lines, only Hk PR and more than likely, HK resident, if you read the blurb about local workforce.

Air HongKong

There was mention previously in this thread, about job opportunities for ex ka crew. however, it looks like only direct entry jfo onto the A300, so that cant be very appealing, or likely for a ex ka A330 skipper, or even sfo. Zero chance if you are not wide body rated.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 13:37
  #237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Posts: 36
Seems to be little chance for anyone. Had an application with them for 3 months and no reply. 3000 hrs on airbus wide body and hk pr and licence /medical.
maybe instructions from big brother cx putting a hold on their recruitment.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 23:51
  #238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HKG
Posts: 59
i believe some ka pilots got jobs. Family connections in one case?
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 01:50
  #239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 113
Two KA FOs got jobs as they had applied even before the redundancies, early bird and all that.
Another got a call from them as they needed an A300 rated pilot to replace someone who dropped out during sim, he started the next day and was ex AHK.
Zero chance if youíre not HKPR.

I hear too that guys are being given a work visa by Immigration if they have done six years to get them to the seven; three or four years get a refusal.
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Old 9th Dec 2020, 01:52
  #240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 113
Immigration are not just picking on pilots. Due to the increasing unemployment in HK they are being tough on all categories and have issued far fewer work visas this year.
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