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Union under COS 18?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Union under COS 18?

Old 23rd Oct 2020, 03:17
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
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Union under COS 18?

What's the point of having a union under COS 18. In fact what was the point of a union under any of the COS's. Seems like that 1% will be better being directed somewhere else.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 03:37
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Join Date: Feb 2020
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No point anymore.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 03:51
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I have to agree that over the years the union has been anything but successful in unifying the masses. Added there are no labor laws that protect the working class and this is what we had to consider when we moved half way around the world to take this job. I don’t know why we even signed a contract when you can be intimated with termination to sign over to a new COS that reduces your salary by a substantial sum and benefits slashed considerably. The pandemic is just the excuse CX needed to implement their plan of reducing over all costs for the long term.

Yes there has been cuts to other airlines around the world and there is a need to reduce costs but in most of those other countries they have plans to return their conditions of service back to normal when the economy recovers. However that will not be true in Hong Kong.

the one thing that the Union has going for it is that now we are all on the same contract. Maybe the union can unify and hopefully get their crap together so when the recovery happens in 2 years we can try to claw back some of these losses. And maybe this time a full scale labor action will be on the table.

But I suspect most have already started thinking about their exit strategy and when jobs return we’ll all have those long books updated and resumes polished. Cathay is nothing more than stepping stone.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:43
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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“I have to agree that over the years the union has been anything but successful in unifying the masses.”

It’s like hearding cats and everyone should take some responsibility.
YOU are the union.
During my time on the GC (many moons ago) I hardly ever saw any regular member coming to the office with ideas.
Members getting called out during contract compliance often demonstrated an arrogant and belligerent attitude, even though 96% voted for cc and tb at the time.

The expression: “Every membership gets the union it deserves” comes to mind.
Now we shall reap what we have sown.
May the force be with us.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 19:15
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Piet Lood View Post
“I have to agree that over the years the union has been anything but successful in unifying the masses.”

It’s like hearding cats and everyone should take some responsibility.
YOU are the union.
During my time on the GC (many moons ago) I hardly ever saw any regular member coming to the office with ideas.
Members getting called out during contract compliance often demonstrated an arrogant and belligerent attitude, even though 96% voted for cc and tb at the time.

The expression: “Every membership gets the union it deserves” comes to mind.
Now we shall reap what we have sown.
May the force be with us.
THIS is 100% true!!!
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 19:50
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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It was the same thing in 99 sign or be fired , If everyone on A scales had refused to sign they would have fired all A scalers ,
the airline would then have stopped operating ,why ? because CX chose to fire their workforce ,the pressure from the HK Govt
to get CX up and running would have been immense, I have always maintained that CX would have backed down if
shown a resolute show of unity . They would still have to pay the B scalers and the Cabin crew with virtually no money coming in
so the pressure would really have been on them , after all they chose to dismiss all A scale pilots .
Sadly though people went up to the 3rd floor telling the managers that they would sign which ultimately strengthened their hand
a unified front would have had a massive impact and I suspect the Ed Rottington would have been terminated if we had stuck together
This brings me back to today , this situation is very serious and had we had a good contract and relationship with the company I think most people
would have willingly taken a pay hit for as long as it took to ride this out, on the understanding that when the situation improved we would return
to the existing COS and be compensated when cash became available .
so it’s all very well to criticise the union but we are all the union . Imagine the negotiating strength the committee would have if they were
assured that the members were prepared to do whatever it took to achieve their goals .
i am not talking about this unparalleled disaster where I think we would all have Willingly pitched in to help had we been treated fairly
over the last 20 years .

so for a large number of people who complain about the union , take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself, what risks was I Prepared to take
To get the union and the contract that I wanted
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 22:03
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Eddington told me, to my face back in 1994..."you'll be fine but understand we are going to ensure the financial stability of the airline". Basically, they have now completed a strategy that they set their focus on 26 years ago. Hard to believe this is the same company I joined in the late 80's....where they took myself and my course partner by limousine to the tailor, then on a tour of housing around HK, also by limousine. Not to mention the two interest free loans deposited in my new HSBC account on day 1, then a year later lent me the deposit to purchase my first house. This is a tragic day, as they have once and for all stripped away any recognition of the value of their most important employees. This is what you get when the management structure focuses on their own bonus structure and not the long term health of the airline, and it's associated safety. They of course don't care, as they collect their bonuses and pensions after moving onto the next Swire job, wholly unrelated to CX.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 00:40
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We are the union? No, no, no. I distanced myself after the 2016 package was voted down. Then watched as the most recent deal in 2019 was also turned down. All the while hearing from you clowns to hold the line, the company will cave in and give us more in the long run etc etc. Well guess what fools, we aren't in a great space now are we. I dont even want to try to calculate how much money its cost me and now we're being forced until bare minimum contracts. Nice work lads. Nice.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 00:55
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
This is a tragic day, as they have once and for all stripped away any recognition of the value of their most important employees. This is what you get when the management structure focuses on their own bonus structure and not the long term health of the airline, and it's associated safety.
We are absolutely NOT their most important employees. Get with the program and recognize the only important employees are the ones sitting in the proverbial ivory tower crunching numbers and depositing fat stacks in their personal bank accounts. THATS all the Kompany cares about. Run and run fast. It’s been over for a while and we all hoped different the inevitable writing was on the wall. Best of luck.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 00:58
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Now that we have nothing to lose, why not ground the airline?
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 03:16
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Originally Posted by MadMajor View Post
We are the union? No, no, no. I distanced myself after the 2016 package was voted down. Then watched as the most recent deal in 2019 was also turned down. All the while hearing from you clowns to hold the line, the company will cave in and give us more in the long run etc etc. Well guess what fools, we aren't in a great space now are we. I dont even want to try to calculate how much money its cost me and now we're being forced until bare minimum contracts. Nice work lads. Nice.
Yep so just roll over and sign. Oh you probably already have
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 04:26
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Point ??

Originally Posted by RAT Management View Post
What's the point of having a union under COS 18. In fact what was the point of a union under any of the COS's. Seems like that 1% will be better being directed somewhere else.
The AOA is AWOL and your 1% should go into your bank account or a food charity where in a few months, unlike the AOA, you just may get some return on your money 🤓
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 04:59
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Remember all roads lead to London lads!
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 05:31
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Earlier in life it was drilled into me that the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. I was also hoping to leave this industry better than I found it.

It's time for the entire crew body to sit on their hands, there is no airline without crew.


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Old 24th Oct 2020, 06:10
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Originally Posted by Shoebox View Post
Yep so just roll over and sign. Oh you probably already have
My guess is, he’s probably one of those who wrote back to the AOA after being asked to explain why he worked a G-day, that it was the company who paid his salary, NOT the AOA, so he didn’t have to follow any AOA rules (that WE voted for).

He wanted to get a measly 2% payrise and give up cc and the tb in return (clause 7 I believe).
Also the twin brother of STW.

In short: he knew EXACTLY what the AOA should have done to create unity, but failed to explain his brilliant plan to the membership or GC.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 13:49
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15. DISSOLUTION OF THE ASSOCIATION
  1. 15.1. The Association in General Meeting may at any time resolve to dissolve the Association, and upon so doing, will appoint one or more liquidators to supervise the liquidation of the assets and liabilities of the Association and will give directions as to the disposal of the Minutes Books, Register of Members, Account Books and other books, documents and papers of the Association and other properties for which buyers are not likely to be found, as to the period in which liquidation is to be effected and as to the distribution or disposal of the funds or other assets of the Association.
  2. 15.2. Upon the appointment of a liquidator or liquidators he or she (or if more than one, then they jointly) will be deemed to be exclusively vested with the powers, rights and authorities conferred upon the General Committee and every Officer of the Association.
  3. 15.3. In the event that any liquidator will die, become bankrupt or refuse or become unable to act as liquidator, then the person who at the date of the resolution to dissolve the Association held office as Secretary will convene a General Meeting within seven days to appoint a new liquidator.
  4. 15.4. The liquidator or liquidators may be paid such remuneration as the Association in General meeting may determine, out of the funds of the Association.
  5. 15.5. The General Meeting resolving upon dissolution of the Association may direct that the whole or any part of any surplus funds of the Association remaining after realisation of all assets and payment of all debts and discharge of all liabilities, be applied in any manner allowed under the Rules which may be consistent with liquidation of the Association and or may be distributed equally amongst the persons who at the date of the resolution to dissolve were Members of the Association.
  6. 15.6. Upon completion of liquidation of the affairs of the Association but before making final disposal of the liquid funds of the Association remaining after payment of all debts and discharge of all liabilities, the liquidator will prepare the final accounts of the Association showing the intended final disposal of such funds, and will present the same together with his report on the liquidation to the Association in General Meeting, and if such accounts and report will be accepted the Association will then be deemed to be dissolved and the liquidator will as soon as possible thereafter effect final disposal of such funds.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 13:51
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Pied, it was 5% and I thought we are friends now? :-)

Gents, bury the hatchet. We are all [email protected] and it is nobodies fault. The party is over.


Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 24th Oct 2020 at 15:04.
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 15:18
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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[QUOTE=

Gents, bury the hatchet. We are all [email protected] and it is nobodies fault. The party is over.[/QUOTE]

Finally someone see the light !
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 15:21
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Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
Finally someone see the light !
Or rather the darkness
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Old 24th Oct 2020, 19:32
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Cathay Dragon was shut down with immediate effect. Company iPads wiped, staff ids no longer valid for cx city and uniforms to be returned in full.
Because the company could not risk any individual, taking his misery into his own hands and committing the ultimate retribution. There are many ka pilots who, with millions in debt, no housing scheme, job and no place to run to, could potentially let their depression overrun them, take things into their own hands.

Cx do not want to risk this with their mainline crew . I suspect those who do not sign over, will be immediately suspended from flying. They cannot risk a rough with a floating gin palace & 10 million mortgage, getting their revenge.
There’s so much vitreole around, I think regrettably , anything is possible.
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