Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat
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As for protection from redundancy, there isn't any either way.
Pied,
I freely admit I was too optimistic. I was hoping for at least a temporary arrangement. But let's not forget the most catastrophic prophesies did not come true either, at least from a cx employee perspective. Regarding CC etc, my argument was not tied to the current crisis but to the last ( or the one before the last, lost count). I would have about 50k USD more in my bank account had we not rejected the payrise. There was also a 10 year ARAPA guarantee on the table at a later point, whether that would have rendered at least some protection I honestly don't know. Water under the bridge.
In defence of our employer I would argue that it is a global crisis, cx is bleeding money and no end in sight. What would you do if it was your company? At the end of the day it was the virus that got us, not some evil management. The entire industry is destroyed, from now on pilots are blue collar workers forever, everywhere. Maybe the US will have a few more years in it, but sooner or later the lower wages will spread to them as well. Amazon pays less than UPS and so the race to the bottom continues. Every new contract will be worse than any old one, globally. For what it's worth, I will stay for another two years and then retire.Ironically this whole desaster might give me the push I need, I have no pleasure doing this job since a long time anyway and I don't like to live in HK. I will still end up with more assets than anyone I know that started flight school at the same time, same as most of you. Thanks for the fish.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 29th Oct 2020 at 13:19.
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I do blame the employer actually. They could have implemented a temporary cut to pay and benefits, restoring them once profitability returned. Instead, they cynically took permanent advantage of a temporary situation to eradicate any vestige of value in the career for pilots in the airline. Largely driven by the past 25 years of frustration and animosity that they themselves nurtured and grew. As a friend just told me, to not even provide him a ticket home after 30+ years of loyal service is disgusting. And he's right.
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mngmt mole
Or they could simply have followed the contract. Without devising some 'clever' scheme to end run it.
These 'clever' schemes always wind up working out poorly for everyone.
Or they could simply have followed the contract. Without devising some 'clever' scheme to end run it.
These 'clever' schemes always wind up working out poorly for everyone.
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CX pilot: cos 18, gets monthly pay 80-90k . Gets housing either fixed for 2 years or the cos18 rate. Gets kids edu allowance.
gets productivity pay. gets the security of knowing that for now, they are employed, and have medical cover for the family.
Ka pilot, Gets zero pay. potential huge mortgage/ lease to deal with, no salary, no security, no repatriation or staff travel. and most importantly no prospects in aviation. Pretty dire for most, wether you were a seasoned B scaler , C scaler making do, or d scaler, young and keen. Lives have been devastated.
So, Be thankful guys you are on the green side of the wire. Its not nice, but as all the moaners know, better than going it alone.
gets productivity pay. gets the security of knowing that for now, they are employed, and have medical cover for the family.
Ka pilot, Gets zero pay. potential huge mortgage/ lease to deal with, no salary, no security, no repatriation or staff travel. and most importantly no prospects in aviation. Pretty dire for most, wether you were a seasoned B scaler , C scaler making do, or d scaler, young and keen. Lives have been devastated.
So, Be thankful guys you are on the green side of the wire. Its not nice, but as all the moaners know, better than going it alone.
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CX is just another LCC. When there is a recovery those who can will leave. Those that are left will either be inexperienced or incompetent. Thats when CX will start crashing airframes. After al,l we will be no different to the other Asian LCCs.
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Customers don't care anymore who sits in the drivers seat, they are aware of the statistics. Plus most captains <50 ish will stay, and with command times of 15-20 years it really doesn't matter anymore with how much experience you started.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 30th Oct 2020 at 03:56.
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cust don't care who is in the LHS
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I might be able to give you a run for your money on the portfolio though, but the difference between you and I is that I fought the good fight for the betterment of the industry. You were only in it to further line your already well-lined pockets.
I don’t know about Pied, but Piet sure as hell didn’t sign a g*ddamned thing.
Enjoy your last two years that you admittedly will live in disgust for your employer. Most of us found out that disgust was deserved many moons ago.
And even now you are prone to write something like: “In defence of our employer.....blablabla”. Unbelievable!
Last edited by Piet Lood; 30th Oct 2020 at 09:06.
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That is mostly true of LCC whose customers don't have the money, nor the motivation to look into safety records and chose the best cost/airline ratio. I can guarantee that if the perception of CX's status of safety and service gets tarnished by incidents, accidents etc, there will be a very noticeable drop in those willing to pay HK$60,000 + for a one way long haul seat when there are other safer options out there. Corporate travel will all but disappear.
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Dream on. Recruitment via Cadets are the industry norm since many years now and accidents are at record low. No customer cares who is pushing the buttons upfront behind the door.
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SloppyJoe
Sadly for you, your dream of those idiot cadets crashing planes left and right, and CX coming crawling back to expats begging them to come back with full housing and save the airline from imminent doom, is going to remain exactly that, a dream.
Sadly for you, your dream of those idiot cadets crashing planes left and right, and CX coming crawling back to expats begging them to come back with full housing and save the airline from imminent doom, is going to remain exactly that, a dream.
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"Sadly for you, your dream of those idiot cadets crashing planes left and right, and CX coming crawling back to expats begging them to come back with full housing and save the airline from imminent doom, is going to remain exactly that, a dream."
I agree. Cadets, who have been selected on the basis of aptitude for the role, are surely as safe if not safer than the self funded pilots who gained experience on pay to fly schemes before joining CX.
The reality is, expat pilots are not wanted. The company have ensured that,
you cannot afford to rent or buy unless you are local,
you cannot afford to school your children unless you are local,
you cannot afford the medical costs if your family become sick.
Second and first officers now face 15+ years on a 2 point pay scale before maybe, just maybe having a shot at the left hand seat of an A320 flying into mainland china, day in, day out.
I know there are not any flying options out there, but there are better alternatives for every expat existing in hong kong.
I agree. Cadets, who have been selected on the basis of aptitude for the role, are surely as safe if not safer than the self funded pilots who gained experience on pay to fly schemes before joining CX.
The reality is, expat pilots are not wanted. The company have ensured that,
you cannot afford to rent or buy unless you are local,
you cannot afford to school your children unless you are local,
you cannot afford the medical costs if your family become sick.
Second and first officers now face 15+ years on a 2 point pay scale before maybe, just maybe having a shot at the left hand seat of an A320 flying into mainland china, day in, day out.
I know there are not any flying options out there, but there are better alternatives for every expat existing in hong kong.
Last edited by cabbages; 30th Oct 2020 at 14:20.
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That’s true, most of the time, until that dark and stormy night with moderate to severe turbulence, high gusty crosswinds, and a contaminated runway; then that highly compensated gweillo captain with heaps of experience looks pretty good. If you’ve been in this business long enough, you’ve seen some of those nights. That gets your attention regardless of your experience level. I love watching the passengers disembark with their relieved, though somewhat pale, faces.
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cxorcist
Not to ruin an otherwise great narrative, but keep in mind that it's that same experience that often keeps a highly compensated gweillo from even attempting the approach under those conditions. Been there enough times to know that I shouldn't have.
Not to ruin an otherwise great narrative, but keep in mind that it's that same experience that often keeps a highly compensated gweillo from even attempting the approach under those conditions. Been there enough times to know that I shouldn't have.
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Arrowhead
This. All the numbers show flying is getting safer. Comparing with previous generation.
1988 - 59 fatal airline accidents, 1169 dead. 954 million pax
2018 - 18 fatal accidents, 561 dead. 4.223 billion pax.
This. All the numbers show flying is getting safer. Comparing with previous generation.
1988 - 59 fatal airline accidents, 1169 dead. 954 million pax
2018 - 18 fatal accidents, 561 dead. 4.223 billion pax.