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Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Old 31st Oct 2020, 22:04
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Cxorcist, your scenario sounds like the perfect oportunity for an autoland to me.
Wrong! Shows what you know. Coupled approaches and autoland are terrible in really gusty winds. The autopilot and auto throttle are simply not quick enough. I’ve seen that be the reason weak captains almost made smoking holes. Maybe you need a few more long haul hours before they upgrade your cheap bum into the LHS.

Hence, the point of my dark stormy night post. Dismiss it if you must, but just wait until it happens to you. Insurers don’t like experience for no reason. The inexperienced typically don’t understand the value of experience by their very definition, obviously.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 22:09
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
What separates us from the Lion Airs of this world? It used to be our selection process (gone), our experience levels (gone), our training standards (gone) and our culture (now toxic beyond belief). We are now just another Asian LCC, waiting to kill hundreds of pax.
Correct. The youngens laugh because they don’t know any better. They trust the magenta created by the brilliant engineers at Boeing and Airbus more than real experience. Good luck with that...
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:18
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Cxorcist, you are living in denial. Safety is not an issue anymore but at some obscure third world carrier or LCC that expanded too quickly. The statistics don't lie. The customer is not interested anymore who sits at the wheel, don't shoot the messenger, just the facts. And absolutely nobody, really literally nobody, cares about a 747 freighter crew. You would not even make the news. Yes, an ex-military fast jet pilot is probably in certain remote situations better equipped to make the day. I give you that. I probably would not have been capable of doing a Sully. But the fact is that those situations are too rare to be of relevance. Automatics work just fine,and if they don't in your stormy night scenario I go around and divert.I don't have a problem with admitting a weather situation is too hairy for me, something an ex-carrier landing maverick might find a bit more difficult. You will find my mark on the right hand side of the monthly fuel statistic (I assume, I delete the mail unopened).

Additionally, we will see if there is really an exodus of experience. You and I are still here after all, and I have a feeling Piet is hanging in as well . If the conditions elsewhere are not better, giving up your seniority and LHS is a tough call. Easy to claim one would should could do on PPRuNe, much harder in real life. Singapore, Emirates etc all had no issue attracting enough pilots over the last years, and we are now simply down to their level. The market forces are against us, that is the sad truth.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 1st Nov 2020 at 00:35.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:26
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 42
Wait, did cxorcist sign cos18??? Surely not after pointing the finger at those who would sign inferior terms and conditions for years. I assume he resigned with his dignity intact, a man of true conviction and honour.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:32
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post



Cxorcist, you are living in denial. Safety is not an issue anymore but at some obscure third world carrier or LCC that expanded too quickly. The statistics don't lie. The customer is not interested anymore who sits at the wheel, don't shoot the messenger, just the facts. .
Bullshit. I have been many times by Hong Kong non-aviation friends that they fly CX because the pilots are largely not locals. CX is pissing this away.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:42
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by quadspeed View Post
Not to ruin an otherwise great narrative, but keep in mind that it's that same experience that often keeps a highly compensated gweillo from even attempting the approach under those conditions. Been there enough times to know that I shouldn't have.
My experience of being on reserve during typhoons is I always get called out. On checking the roster it is a cadet-Captain actually showing some smarts and calling in sick to avoid showing just how skilled they are.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 00:57
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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A few years ago, the idea of leaving EK to work for a low cost back in Europe was laughable, but it the last year or two it was actually occurring. The reduced T&Cs together with the increased B/S tipped the scale for many pilots, and the idea of multi sector days under O'Leary management became more bearable when it was offset by living in your home country and being in your own bed every night. A fixed roster pattern and staying married to the same person clinched the deal.

CX has gone from being a career airline which set the standard for pay and conditions, and was a company pilots aspired to work for. Management took full advantage of the present situation and turned it into just another airline which pays the minimum to keep staff turnover down to an acceptable level.

Ryanair and Easyjet will be flooded with applications from Hong Kong once travel starts picking up in Europe.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:00
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by YellowFever777 View Post
Wait, did cxorcist sign cos18??? Surely not after pointing the finger at those who would sign inferior terms and conditions for years. I assume he resigned with his dignity intact, a man of true conviction and honour.
Absolutely not! You don’t want CXorcist on CoS18. That won’t be any fun for anyone.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:30
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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So you left?
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:36
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
So you left?
In process... Happy now?
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:47
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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In process means you did not leave...

PS Wish you the best.Seriously. We are all in the same boat
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:50
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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But the fact is that those situations are too rare to be of relevance.
Unless you or one of your loved ones are dead, then maybe not so much
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 01:58
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Shh..
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things will only STAY PUT if our govt don't negotiate with other countries on reopening!!!!! so many safe countries and you tell me we are not even considering on that? look at how Singapore is opening up green lanes, business travels, no quarantine lists! And we are still exactly the same since March? Other than allowing mainlanders in next month without quarantine.... Also did mgmt clarify why their pay cut is only 1 year when the pandemic will drag longer than that?
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 03:56
  #254 (permalink)  
hyg
 
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Originally Posted by carolknows View Post
things will only STAY PUT if our govt don't negotiate with other countries on reopening!!!!! so many safe countries and you tell me we are not even considering on that? look at how Singapore is opening up green lanes, business travels, no quarantine lists! And we are still exactly the same since March? Other than allowing mainlanders in next month without quarantine.... Also did mgmt clarify why their pay cut is only 1 year when the pandemic will drag longer than that?
you do realise it's the hk communist gov that controls these negotiations right? they already said they are going to rely on business from the north, and don't give a flying crap about everywhere or anywhere else.... the secretary of finance just said that a few days ago, hk will join the 'internal circulation of China' that's proposed by President Xi in combat of the world's suppression of China....
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 05:40
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Thanks STW
Cleared up any doubt in my mind as to who I fly with after this pandemic is over.
I DO care about who is in the LHS.
You wouldn’t be a management hack by any chance would you ?
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 06:11
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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I have no doubt you care. But neither the customer nor management does, that is my point.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 1st Nov 2020 at 06:43.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 07:17
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: World
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Skilled cadet pilot: knows the limitations of the aircraft, weather, learns from both his experience and the experience of others and makes good decisions and judgements

Cowboy PPRuNe expat: oh boy, time to show the world how much better I really am than those useless cadets, they're the only ones who ever make mistakes, not me. Forget 100 years of history, my whole 2 anecdotes prove it for sure.

Hilarious.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 07:40
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
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STW is correct of course - worldwide accident rates have been falling steadily - principally due to more automation and more safety related kit in the cockpit.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 08:35
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: TC
Posts: 14
Quite interesting that many, if not all of the incidents this year, was on the hands of an experienced expat captain..
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 08:37
  #260 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
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Originally Posted by veritas777 View Post
Skilled cadet pilot: knows the limitations of the aircraft, weather, learns from both his experience and the experience of others and makes good decisions and judgements
Is your only experience sitting back watching the world pass by after you make the bunks? I bet that the highlight of the year is listening to the wonderful teachings of the CRM class? You seem to have a grudge against expats. Maybe you should sit back relax and learn something real about flying.

A skilled cadet that can rattle off every single dot point in a manual is usually the one with handling deficiencies. Just wait for your base training. It’ll be a doozy. Don’t push the nose wheel up through the floor please. I cannot stand watching planes be grounded from that sort of thing.
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