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LIFO
Those saying it's impossible to avoid LIFO, is a contractual bla bla bla... Litigation... You should read HK labour Law. Under special circumstances and to guarantee company survival, contracts can be overridden...
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Well AndyBrown, HK labour law might say so, but no such thing exists in OZ, US, Canada or Europe.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Well AndyBrown, HK labour law might say so, but no such thing exists in OZ, US, Canada or Europe.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
Join Date: May 2002
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Major restructuring. Company and all contracts essentially ceases to exist and assets transferred to new company who picks who to re-hire.
Didn't take SLS? Out
On the 777 with 3 months of G days continuously? Out
Everyone on COS20. Don't like it? Too bad, get out
ARAPA gone. Can't afford your mega mansion anymore? Too bad, if you don't like it, leave
Locals protected over expats
If senior crew think their experience makes them bigger than god, bye bye.
Didn't take SLS? Out
On the 777 with 3 months of G days continuously? Out
Everyone on COS20. Don't like it? Too bad, get out
ARAPA gone. Can't afford your mega mansion anymore? Too bad, if you don't like it, leave
Locals protected over expats
If senior crew think their experience makes them bigger than god, bye bye.
you are talking about bankruptcy not restructuring.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I encourage the enthusiasm but really it is not going to make any difference.
Read the AOA forums, the company has locked the AOA out from any meetings etc. Last time they met was before the ERS. What we say or think means jack sh$&.
Read the AOA forums, the company has locked the AOA out from any meetings etc. Last time they met was before the ERS. What we say or think means jack sh$&.
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Bla Bla Bla
An example in how useless the courts and government are; Mainland China and the PRC are NOT SUPPOSED to interfere in the internal workings of Hong Kong !!!
Next !!!!
#CXIT
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Funny that, the real world suggests that people who cost too much to do too little, and those who think way too big of themselves when they are in fact replaceable by much those more talented and less entitled, are the first to go. Out.
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Well AndyBrown, HK labour law might say so, but no such thing exists in OZ, US, Canada or Europe.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
Contracts on bases are enforceable and will be followed.
A few years ago DFO RH, GMA PH and GMA/DFO AT started messing around with contracts on bases, ask them how that went....
So yes, in HK things might go a little bit different in the coming weeks from what most are expecting, however bases won't be messed around with.
That would actually increase overal cost dramatically so there is no way to justify that by senior management.
And the ONE thing that is clear in some of those contracts is the required layoff/recall provisions. And--for better or worse--things that happen in HKG can adversely affect those contracts even if the people are currently in another jurisdiction. So to be constructive it's best to figure something that can be worked within those constraints.
The only thing that I can think of is an attractive and voluntary scheme to avoid axing from the bottom up to the extent it can be avoided.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The easiest way to deal with these pesky labour laws abroad, would be to close the bases. Once all pilots are HK based, CX can do what they want; because the courts will support them in HKG.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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That would not be smart, as the based are some of the cheapest crew on the note-sheet at the moment.
Final Solution: Swire extract themselves from this structurally sick, over regulated and high cost investment.
As signalled by the forced resignation of the leadership last year, due to political misdemeanours, Swire are not welcome in the future local environment.
Instead of planning all the devious legal and legally challengable staffing solutions listed above, they have been tying up the loose ends and putting the HKGOV money to good use paying down Swire debt and planning an entire shutdown of all operations, permanently.
They are not “legally” bound to continue their air carriage service.
Imagine the Phoenix that will arise from the ashes!
How about them apples?
As signalled by the forced resignation of the leadership last year, due to political misdemeanours, Swire are not welcome in the future local environment.
Instead of planning all the devious legal and legally challengable staffing solutions listed above, they have been tying up the loose ends and putting the HKGOV money to good use paying down Swire debt and planning an entire shutdown of all operations, permanently.
They are not “legally” bound to continue their air carriage service.
Imagine the Phoenix that will arise from the ashes!
How about them apples?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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“Valid Reasons for Dismissal or Variation of the Terms of the Employment Contract
The five valid reasons for dismissal or variation of the terms of the employment contract are:
the conduct of the employee
the capability or qualifications of the employee for performing his work
redundancy or other genuine operational requirements of the business
statutory requirements (i.e. it would be contrary to the law to allow an
employee to continue to work in his original position or to continue with the
original terms in his employment contract)
other substantial reasons”
if Covid 19 is not a genuine operational requirement, I don’t know what is.
I am not advocating contracts be broken by any means, and I don’t believe they will be, just stating the facts.
Last edited by fly1981; 26th Sep 2020 at 23:43.
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Don't think that'd work at this point. You couldn't close a base to deliberately avoid the contractural provisions of layoff/recall in an existing contract (it'd have the same effect as violating them in the first place), and I'm sure there's a paper trail if that would have been the intent. So better simply to solve the problem by following an agreed contract rather than try something dodgy and underhanded.
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I'm sorry to say, but the company has every right to close the bases at their discretion. They have no legal obligation to keep them open. I hope they do keep them open, but don't kid yourselves that the company is somehow obligated to keep them running as is.
Smartest thing would be to get pregnant.
We are going through this at present with a company in HK. Not only is it practically impossible to fire pregnant staff, we have been told that we cannot liquidate either!
We are going through this at present with a company in HK. Not only is it practically impossible to fire pregnant staff, we have been told that we cannot liquidate either!
Funny how Sam writes up terms & conditions for responses in his opener and, again, later appeals for "no personal attacks or insults". C'mon, Sam, this is Fragrant Harbour where many of us "lurk" about for our daily (week-end in my case) larf where bully boy tactics and deep personal insults, often through "potty mouth talk" has been the order of the day And I see Sam "lurking" about the ME forum too.Don't you CX guys have a dedicated CX forum ? Might be better for airing rather than on the public platforms. Blimey, sound like a Mod.
The Corvid hysteria and lock-down has seen a softening of articulation here though. I am saddened, actually. I am reminded, though, of all the airline disasters, bankruptcies etc that led to whole swathes of pilots meeting up & discussing solutions before the axe fell anyway. Went through two and our solutions never got to the table. Now there's a surprise. Cathartic though.
Wish you a healthy outcome but reading many of the posts has that famous Perry Como (or was Cherry Coco ?) song " Dream along with me, I'm on my way to the stars" ringing in my ears. Also, the famous list of uses of the "F" word where one has Captain of the Titanic turning to First Officer and asks ; "What F.....g Ice Berg ?"
As we say in that fabbo, well considered, deeply analysed Yamkee phrase ; "It is what it is".
Sorry Sam. Taking cover for the tirade of two-word dismissals for which the Harbour is famous.
The Corvid hysteria and lock-down has seen a softening of articulation here though. I am saddened, actually. I am reminded, though, of all the airline disasters, bankruptcies etc that led to whole swathes of pilots meeting up & discussing solutions before the axe fell anyway. Went through two and our solutions never got to the table. Now there's a surprise. Cathartic though.
Wish you a healthy outcome but reading many of the posts has that famous Perry Como (or was Cherry Coco ?) song " Dream along with me, I'm on my way to the stars" ringing in my ears. Also, the famous list of uses of the "F" word where one has Captain of the Titanic turning to First Officer and asks ; "What F.....g Ice Berg ?"
As we say in that fabbo, well considered, deeply analysed Yamkee phrase ; "It is what it is".
Sorry Sam. Taking cover for the tirade of two-word dismissals for which the Harbour is famous.
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Funny how Sam writes up terms & conditions for responses in his opener and, again, later appeals for "no personal attacks or insults". C'mon, Sam, this is Fragrant Harbour where many of us "lurk" about for our daily (week-end in my case) larf where bully boy tactics and deep personal insults, often through "potty mouth talk" has been the order of the day And I see Sam "lurking" about the ME forum too.Don't you CX guys have a dedicated CX forum ? Might be better for airing rather than on the public platforms. Blimey, sound like a Mod.