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HOLD ON TO YOUR UNDERPANTS !!

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

HOLD ON TO YOUR UNDERPANTS !!

Old 7th Sep 2020, 11:22
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
Exactly !!! Some of those guys on here should get a real job and then talk !!!!
OK !!! I will talk to those guys OK !!! Maybe all of people can get real job !!! I let u know !!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 11:24
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 313
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
OK !!! I will talk to those guys OK !!! Maybe all of people can get real job !!! I let u know !!
Perfecto !!!!!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:16
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Nobody in here excelled at school, You wouldn't be in this line of work if you had :-))
Actually, I did quite well at an excellent university and could have taken a number of jobs in finance (investment banking, consulting, venture capital) that probably would have brought me back to uni for an MBA and/or JD. I chose to serve my country in the military out of a sense of duty and a passion for aviation. I left the military after enough deployments to the desert and started an airline career (mistake).

Perhaps our backgrounds (upbringing and schooling) is why I see things so differently from “your” generation. Cheap cadets pilots with little self respect or sense of worth have taken a once proud career and denigrated it, as was intended by cynical employers that prefer robots over a “Sully” and then brag about their safety focus.

In economics, we call this late stage capitalism when too many goods and services are relegated to commodities (widgets), and input costs are excessively reduced such that the quality of the products are compromised. Hiring low to no time pilots, spinning them through a mini flying school, having them sit on their thumbs for 3-4+ years as SOs, and calling it good is a massive compromise from my vantage point.

That much of the industry does this now is no consolation to me. Flying with CX’s two bar cadet JFOs is usually a lot of work. I miss the ejection seat, both figuratively and literally. Then, we get to be disparaged by the same pilots we just babysat for hours while they put downward pressure on our contracts. Yeah, it’s a bitter pill to swallow.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:39
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Actually, I did quite well at an excellent university and could have taken a number of jobs in finance (investment banking, consulting, venture capital) that probably would have brought me back to uni for an MBA and/or JD. I chose to serve my country in the military out of a sense of duty and a passion for aviation. I left the military after enough deployments to the desert and started an airline career (mistake).

Perhaps our backgrounds (upbringing and schooling) is why I see things so differently from “your” generation. Cheap cadets pilots with little self respect or sense of worth have taken a once proud career and denigrated it, as was intended by cynical employers that prefer robots over a “Sully” and then brag about their safety focus.

In economics, we call this late stage capitalism when too many goods and services are relegated to commodities (widgets), and input costs are excessively reduced such that the quality of the products are compromised. Hiring low to no time pilots, spinning them through a mini flying school, having them sit on their thumbs for 3-4+ years as SOs, and calling it good is a massive compromise from my vantage point.

That much of the industry does this now is no consolation to me. Flying with CX’s two bar cadet JFOs is usually a lot of work. I miss the ejection seat, both figuratively and literally. Then, we get to be disparaged by the same pilots we just babysat for hours while they put downward pressure on our contracts. Yeah, it’s a bitter pill to swallow.
Don't cry yourself to sleep tonight, darling. And if you could not yell at the kids and not kick the dog, that would be a bonus, Mavedick.

Last edited by Memorylapse; 7th Sep 2020 at 12:52.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:49
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
Don't cry yourself to sleep tonight, darling. And if you could not yell at the kids and not kick the dog, that would be a bonus - Mavedick.
Thank you for proving my point.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 13:02
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Thank you for proving my point.
Luckily your time is over - you know it, I know it, most people know it. It's gone.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 13:06
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
Luckily your time is over - you know it, I know it, most people know it. It's gone.
Really? I would consider it quite unlucky actually. You may think you’re going to get lucky, but I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on that if I were you. CX may be ruthless, but they are not stupid.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 13:08
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Really? I would consider it quite unlucky actually. You may think you’re going to get lucky, but I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on that if I were you. CX may be ruthless, but they are not stupid.
Don’t kick that dog now, Skip!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 13:23
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
Don’t kick that dog now, Skip!
“Dog is my copilot”

Oh, how I wish the bumper sticker were true!

Properly raised, respectful, and much smarter than most. Knows when to sit there and be quiet and when to take action. Yes, the dog is wise indeed. No chance of me kicking her.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 13:32
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Actually, I did quite well at an excellent university and could have taken a number of jobs in finance (investment banking, consulting, venture capital) that probably would have brought me back to uni for an MBA and/or JD. I chose to serve my country in the military out of a sense of duty and a passion for aviation. I left the military after enough deployments to the desert and started an airline career (mistake).

Perhaps our backgrounds (upbringing and schooling) is why I see things so differently from “your” generation. Cheap cadets pilots with little self respect or sense of worth have taken a once proud career and denigrated it, as was intended by cynical employers that prefer robots over a “Sully” and then brag about their safety focus.

In economics, we call this late stage capitalism when too many goods and services are relegated to commodities (widgets), and input costs are excessively reduced such that the quality of the products are compromised. Hiring low to no time pilots, spinning them through a mini flying school, having them sit on their thumbs for 3-4+ years as SOs, and calling it good is a massive compromise from my vantage point.

That much of the industry does this now is no consolation to me. Flying with CX’s two bar cadet JFOs is usually a lot of work. I miss the ejection seat, both figuratively and literally. Then, we get to be disparaged by the same pilots we just babysat for hours while they put downward pressure on our contracts. Yeah, it’s a bitter pill to swallow.
Dear Captain Cxorcist,

Herewith I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you for sharing your limited time as well as your many talents and great wisdom with us here on an anonymous internet forum. You could have used your time, talent and wisdom for something worthwhile but instead you decided to share it with us.




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Old 7th Sep 2020, 22:08
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Thank you for proving my point.
Cxorcist, there are lots like him, ignore it. Many of us can relate to your longer earlier post.
I'd wager our backgrounds are similar, and at the risk of our newer snowflake generation throwing the same barbs at me, it's pointless trying to explain to them.
Unless they've ever strapped into an ejection seat, launched in a fully loaded combat aircraft, and understand if you are flying over areas where if you eject, and survive, you stand an even chance of having your nuts relocated to your mouth, they will never understand.
They'll never understand how you have the trust to depend on a wingman, meet solid folk who stay lifelong mates, and how those years of military service mold you into an individual with integrity, who becomes principled, and who hates BS.
In short, they just do not have the age and maturity to understand where you're coming from.
The cold hard reality of commercial aviation downsizing may soon be a rather rude awakening for them.
To all, whether you're a brushwing snowflake, an oldie, or somewhere in between, I wish you well in the forthcoming restructure.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 22:38
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 66
What a truly sad display of a divided pilot group.

Management just sits back and watches you all taunt each other as if you know the other group is going to get chopped. Of course nobody knows anything, and that's likely by design so management can let the fear of the unknown fester and drive you all to make these uninformed forecasts. The public negotiating where scared individuals say the minimum they are willing to take to save the company are just icing on the cake.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 03:20
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
That’s exactly right STW! If CX breaks the LIFO contracts it has now, why would anyone be so stupid as to believe them going forward? Even facing a furlough, pilots with an inkling of sense should want an employer with enough integrity to honor their contracts. Otherwise, why would anyone sign one of these contracts and want to work for CX? Perhaps CX thinks they can prey on the young, dumb, and inexperienced indefinitely. This thread certainly makes a case for that.
Its a conversation going on in pilot bars around the world regarding CX management;

“They sacked 49 guys to intimidate the others, but I trust them.
They hired direct entry captains in breach of the contract and got away with it by calling them rapid commands, but I trust them.
They shut down the fiasco that was the Paris base on the excuse of an aircraft swap, but I trust them.
They stopped paying expat allowances by calling everyone, irrespective of experience, cadets, but I trust them.
They ignored a signed agreement with the Adelaide instructors, but I trust them.
They became the only mainline airline in the world to introduce a productivity pay system while not giving crew any control over their productivity, but I trust them.
They sacked employees for making political comments on social media, but I trust them.
BUT, if they don’t comply with every clause of cxorcist’s contract then they’ve lost my trust.”

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Old 8th Sep 2020, 05:05
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 22
Cxorcist, you are passionately demanding a free market, as long as the big corporations understand that you are special, disregard demand and supply of labour, honor seniority, your employer negotiates fairly with your union, your contract never is cancelled and safety is regarded as more important than profits.
And to find all that you decided to move to Hong Kong.



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