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CX Shares slip below HK8

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

CX Shares slip below HK8

Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:44
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Dsteve View Post
all those hoping for LIFO "because it's in our contract"... you are aware who your employer is right?
grabs popcorn
Yep, we know far better than you because we’ve been here a lot longer than a D (scale) Steve.
Grabs bourbon and patio chair...
cxorcist is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 00:51
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by Dsteve View Post
all those hoping for LIFO "because it's in our contract"... you are aware who your employer is right?
grabs popcorn
If redundancies occur they will be LIFO for at least two reasons:

Enough crew are based in civilised countries where contracts are enforceable

POS18 crew bring so little experience to the operation that too much of a push towards them will result in a hull loss (twice when I was a FO, ex-cadet Captains tried to crash the aeroplane due to a lack of real experience and knowledge).
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 07:07
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
If redundancies occur they will be LIFO for at least two reasons:

Enough crew are based in civilised countries where contracts are enforceable

POS18 crew bring so little experience to the operation that too much of a push towards them will result in a hull loss (twice when I was a FO, ex-cadet Captains tried to crash the aeroplane due to a lack of real experience and knowledge).
LIFO with 3 man long haul coming your way, 600 or so pilots to go is the rumour. Hopefully this can be reduced through measures by working with the pilot body! In order to make lifo work we will have to agree to 3 man long-haul and various other rostering concessions, as the majority of the most junior 600 are second officers and as a result 3 man long haul.

If they can get the number of involuntary redundancies down to bellow 200 through various schemes some might say it's a good result, either way a crying shame. Non the less when the involuntary redundancies come they must be in LIFO order, and it's time for management to address this and stop all this nonsense.

Last edited by LLLQNH; 18th Jul 2020 at 07:43.
LLLQNH is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 09:41
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 568
Many of the last in are quite young. This pandemic will eventually play itself out: if people need to be let go, it would be nice if they were put on a re-hire list and keep the same seniority number.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 10:16
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by main_dog View Post
Many of the last in are quite young. This pandemic will eventually play itself out: if people need to be let go, it would be nice if they were put on a re-hire list and keep the same seniority number.
Thats exactly what would happen the COS mentions this, all airlines the world over have very similar clauses in their contracts! Many of the more senior pilots in Cathay would have been through one or two Furloughs and re-hires already, welcome to the airline industry!

I would guess if and it's still a big if Cathay were to make pilots redundant they would all be back on property flying within 3 years.

Last edited by LLLQNH; 18th Jul 2020 at 10:36.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 11:41
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 88
3 man long haul, with a shit load of pilots sitting at home doing nothing, that makes perfect CX sense
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 11:42
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Brown Nose View Post
3 man long haul, with a shit load of pilots sitting at home doing nothing, that makes perfect CX sense
It does make perfect sense after they have made a whole bunch redundant.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 14:19
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by herewego75 View Post
Wow seems like people are wishing their housing away! Wishing our overtime threshold away! Wishing a reduction in medical! Wishing a reduction in schooling! Make no mistake, this will all go before any pilot!
Be careful what you wish for!

I think it's now time we as pilots work with the company, take a knock on the chin and take a reduction, be it over 2 years, to save all of our pilots jobs. The junior guys will give up 50% of their salary but the question is will the senior guys do that? Maybe have a look what's happing in the states, how the senior guys are stepping aside to preserve aviation and the future of aviation. At a cost of course!
In other words, destroy the contract to save a few jobs. I think not young learner. Break out a history book mate. Once a pilot group makes concessions, they never get those back. Wake up!
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 16:21
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 314
It is quite simple. The restructured CX will be significant smaller then it is now. As such staffing levels will be adjusted accordingly. How this will be done? Cancellation of recognition & GFBA agreement and talk about getting away from legacy thinking should give everyone a good idea what will come in Q4.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 17:18
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: HK
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Originally Posted by GTC58 View Post
It is quite simple. The restructured CX will be significant smaller then it is now. As such staffing levels will be adjusted accordingly. How this will be done? Cancellation of recognition & GFBA agreement and talk about getting away from legacy thinking should give everyone a good idea what will come in Q4.
Exactly this, stop kidding yourselves.
Bekol delay is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 17:22
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by herewego75 View Post
Maybe have a look what's happing in the states, how the senior guys are stepping aside to preserve aviation and the future of aviation.
Spoken like a true millennial, who is nervous and close enough to the bottom of the seniority list to start spouting how he thinks it should be done. There's a procedure in the COS to cover this potential reduction in numbers.
No need for Johnny come lately's to try and re-write that aspect to save his shiny new job. Nice try though.
The US majors, and their respective contracts are completely different from the HK environment and the CX CoS. No point to compare Dragon fruit and apples.
LongTimeInCX is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 22:01
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 1st Floor
Age: 30
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Originally Posted by GTC58 View Post
It is quite simple. The restructured CX will be significant smaller then it is now. As such staffing levels will be adjusted accordingly. How this will be done? .
Covid is back. Do CX management have the resourcefulness to orchestrate anything significant before the green shoots of recovery are decimated by another lockdown?

Well , the gov bailout has ensured we can all still afford to drink at McSorleys to ease the pain of our sunburn , hick.

here’s to being Dumb, happy & doing F%@k all
Krone is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:21
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601
For all speaking of LIFO (which I agree with by the way), what if a contract doesn't have a clause that specifically states that all pilots will be treated homogeneously should redundancies occur? Could that mean that those pilots who do have the provision written into their contract might be affected before those who don't, meaning the latter might benefit from not being on a common redundancy list?

Just a thought.

STP
Steve the Pirate is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2020, 08:08
  #54 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: china
Age: 51
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
One post( allegedly) by "them" is all you guys need to classify and condemn "the" young. Jesus, really?

PS I am surprised Cathay stock is STILL at 8ish. I wouldn't buy it for 5.
You were so right, its now $5.23 , will you be buying when it slumps below $5 this week?

Even the rights shares at 45 cents have had a luke warm response.

CX at sub $4 values will really shake thingsup.
All A ans B scalers really need to look in the mirror and say is it right that Im bleeding my company dry, to keep my boat afloat?
( in some cases literally )
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 13:07
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
You were so right, its now $5.23 , will you be buying when it slumps below $5 this week?

Even the rights shares at 45 cents have had a luke warm response.

CX at sub $4 values will really shake thingsup.
All A ans B scalers really need to look in the mirror and say is it right that Im bleeding my company dry, to keep my boat afloat?
( in some cases literally )
I had a look, and my moral conscience isn’t bothered at all. But I did have the best laugh of my day at your post so thanks a heap..
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 13:20
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
You were so right, its now $5.23 , will you be buying when it slumps below $5 this week?

Even the rights shares at 45 cents have had a luke warm response.

CX at sub $4 values will really shake thingsup.
All A ans B scalers really need to look in the mirror and say is it right that Im bleeding my company dry, to keep my boat afloat?
( in some cases literally )
When 3 shareholders own 85 percent of the stock (2 of which own 75 percent) its share price is irrelevant. You have what is effectively a holding company partnership — which this airline has been for many many years. The ‘shareholder’ concept being there solely to exploit the liability benefits of a public traded company.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 19:34
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 325
[QUOTE]CX at sub $4 values will really shake thingsup.
All A ans B scalers really need to look in the mirror and say is it right that Im bleeding my company dry, to keep my boat afloat?
( in some cases literally ) [/QUOTE]

You obviously have little children here like Kahaha and pickuptruck that believe being compensated fairly for your profession is somehow immoral and wrong, you should instead work minimum wage and have a miserable life so that upper management fatten their bank accounts on the backs of the workforce. Talk about the modern slave, management whip not even needed, they're doing a great job whipping themselves ...LMAO!
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 06:17
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 639
Ahhhh I've missed reading PPRuNe ;-) So entertaining - Jerry Springer meets Aviation

I feel like much of what is said is like the passengers on the titanic arguing about their relative chances of survival- "I am on the poop deck, so I will survive" - "I got a stool at the bar, so I will survive" - "I was the first to book so I will survive" etc etc

For anyone who wants to rely on COS to save you - please read the 49ers book. Or those in the 'first world" read how Joyce grounded QF in 2011 for no particular reason(he made up some). Or look at all the bases closed despite us still flying there. Anything can be justified - and good luck getting a 1st world country's court imposing its' will on a small part of communist china. Study our history - and remember that was when things were 'normal' not under global financial distress.

I can make a business case for closing bases - keeping bases open - shrinking bases - expanding bases. A case can be made for anything - getting rid of senior guys like me, or getting rid of junior pilots. Stop wasting times with theoretical what-ifs; just deal with what actually happens not what might happen.

Pilots hate, more than most people hate, the lack of control. What is clearly NOT in our control is covid/vaccine/things getting back to normal. What is in your control - how you choose to live your life between now and more 'certainty' being provided. Either you have a CX/KA job in a year's time or you don't. What if you had 18months left to live? Would you spend your time worrying/complaining about what is happening.

All I know for sure is I will get 3 months pay if I am terminated. In my time here - things were incredibly uncertain/scary in end of 1992/early 1993 commitment days, 1994(new contract), 1999 sign or be fired, 2001 49ers, 2001 9-11, 2008-09 GFC/Swine flu, 2017 HPE, 2020- covid19.

One thing I know for sure - I was happy before cathay, happy at cathay and I will be happy after cathay. Yes I would like to get some more $$$ given some poor life choices - but whatever. Life is too short to make money, job or title responsible for my happiness.


Enjoy the free time while it lasts- or not - that is up to you.
Numero Crunchero is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2020, 06:51
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: The Forbidden City
Posts: 74
Excellent post, señor
Curry Lamb is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2020, 06:57
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 419
Spoken like a true stoic, NC.
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