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The Real Threat

Old 23rd May 2020, 01:59
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 60
I find the international stance one sided. Nobody reports (Just listened to the BBC version)that article 23 is enshrined in the basic law and that after 23 years hong kong still hasn't enacted it as required. Its cherry picking which bits of the basic law you are going to abide by. OK so cherry pick but report the full facts.
People seem to conveniently ignore or forget weapons of mass destruction as the justification of gw2 and the patriot act (national security?) when listening to the US pushing the democracy vs sanctions theme in HKG.
My point is nobody seems to be reporting this objectively and itís starting to look like an orchestrated campaign for another conflict be it military or economic.


AllWobbly is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 02:19
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 611
Good post Wobbles. Unfortunately HK is but a pawn in this international game of egos.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:22
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
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Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
Did any of you think China was going to allow the protests in HK to continue indefinitely? I was surprised they let them continue as long as they did, standing behind Carrie Lam and saying what a great job she was doing.

The fate of HK was sealed back in 1997. Xi wants control and he has the biggest stick so he will get it. In my opinion, the protests will not be allowed to escalate to previous levels.
1984 actually, when Thatcher decided to hand HK back (not that she had much choice) without granting UK passports to all.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:28
  #44 (permalink)  
hyg
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
What hordes? The ones who invest in property here? The ones who list their IPO's here? The ones who's factories are keeping CX in business? The whole idea that Hong Kong would function fine without China is ridiculous. The close proximity of mainland China and its growth is what built Hong Kong.
It's a bit like the argument the police incited the rioters. The rioters looted and smashed and burned Causeway Bay for hours without the HKPF there while cheering and yelling for the Police to turn up.
The GBA will shortly overtake Hong Kong, whether the locals like it or not. STW you're full of BS, what if it was your daughter that was raped and murdered? Would you be out on the streets cheering for the accused to walk free in Taiwan. 4500 petrol bombs thrown, over 160 bombs in the last 12 months. The sad part is few of the idiots protesting actually read what Article 23 is all about and they think that by destroying CX, attacking foreigners and damaging the economy in Hong Kong they will win.
you are the one full of BS, since when did protestor rape anybody...nothing was looted...the one attacked foreigners are the pro-china ppl, have you heard of the boxer back in the Qing dynasty?? they do not think they will win when the economy collapse in hk, they are aiming to bring everyone else who screw with the normal people's lives down with them.... look at the share market, the tycoons lost billions in one day.....

Btw if you are so in favour of China, don't complain when you or your friend got arrested in China for no reason. U know it's not that hard to fake say a rape case against you when you did a layover in shanghai or Beijing....cost about 100K or less, it's enough to put you in a Chinese jail for few months until the 'girl u allegedly rape' drop the case.... Ricky Wong, the owner of HKTV, when he was trying to lobby for his tv licence, all of a sudden someone claimed she was raped by him, mysteriously when he decided not to do his tv business anymore, the case disappeared.....that's how China works
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Old 23rd May 2020, 14:03
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 73
Posts: 28
It's all very sad - but inevitable. An all powerful system like China will not accept any criticism or discussion. It's Big Brother and he knows best because he loves his Country and people - except the ones who disagree with him!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 15:58
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,563
Chicana, like many historic empires expands and contracts.

After 150 years of contraction it's been in expansion mode since 1948. The USA was in expansion mode until Vietnam since which it has been in retreat. The British expanded into N America, then contracted, then expanded in Africa and India, then contracted again. Russia shows similar patterns. I'm not sure it 's really a deep seated plan - it's a reaction to the changing world situation.
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Old 24th May 2020, 08:31
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
China needs trade with the west and raw materials from all over the world. So why risk it all for this now? Why not just wait?
They seem to want this escalation and I wonder why?
China could invade Taiwan and the rest of the world would still trade with China. You could say there are new emerging sources of goods from other Asian countries but the vast majority of those are still Chinese companies. Quite a few Chinese companies are outsourcing their own manufacturing outside of China due to rising labour costs.

In regards to raw materials, as the largest purchaser of raw materials on the planet those that supply those will continue to sell them irregardless of Chinaís status.
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Old 24th May 2020, 08:54
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
China could invade Taiwan and the rest of the world would still trade with China. You could say there are new emerging sources of goods from other Asian countries but the vast majority of those are still Chinese companies. Quite a few Chinese companies are outsourcing their own manufacturing outside of China due to rising labour costs.

In regards to raw materials, as the largest purchaser of raw materials on the planet those that supply those will continue to sell them irregardless of Chinaís status.
exactly
And what a coincidence that since 2003 China has purchased fabric manufacturing factories in Northern Italy which now outnumber Italian owned factories and stand at around 3000.
who would have thunk that the virus appeared there so early on in the outbreak...
And all for that Made in Italy label
Smh
JMock is online now  
Old 24th May 2020, 10:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 825
If all this is left to escalate I see east-west-trade be impacted in a very serious way. Independent of Corona and longer lasting. Like the already politically mentioned new Cold War.
I see the US being closer to that tipping point than Europe for the time being.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:24
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 353
They buying up a lot of land for beef production worldwide
https://www.thedialogue.org/wp-conte...in-America.pdf
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:09
  #51 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 2,009
Keep in mind... the US and, more generally, the West need China a LOT less than China needs them. The West, and especially the US, have every resource (save a few rare earth metals) that it needs to have a functional and thriving economies, especially if western nations trade fairly amongst themselves.

Additionally, Chinese demographics are a ticking time bomb. The West, while not a breeding society per se, has much better demographics via southern immigration.

To add insult to injury, China has basically destroyed their environment to have the manufacturing economy they have today. What are the health and wealth implications of that over time? Not good!

Lastly, China has been all about making people rich on the backs on cheap labor. That labor isnít cheap anymore, and itís only going to get worse as demographic realities set in. Perhaps China can pivot to a service economy, but I wouldnít bet on it.

The best is past for the Mainland. All that is left is to figure out how to utilize their vast riches accumulated over the last few decades. By the looks of things, itís going to be totalitarian oppression and military expansionism. That wonít end well for them. History shows us that.
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:29
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Keep in mind... the US and, more generally, the West need China a LOT less than China needs them. The West, and especially the US, have every resource (save a few rare earth metals) that it needs to have a functional and thriving economies, especially if western nations trade fairly amongst themselves.

Additionally, Chinese demographics are a ticking time bomb. The West, while not a breeding society per se, has much better demographics via southern immigration.

To add insult to injury, China has basically destroyed their environment to have the manufacturing economy they have today. What are the health and wealth implications of that over time? Not good!

Lastly, China has been all about making people rich on the backs on cheap labor. That labor isnít cheap anymore, and itís only going to get worse as demographic realities set in. Perhaps China can pivot to a service economy, but I wouldnít bet on it.

The best is past for the Mainland. All that is left is to figure out how to utilize their vast riches accumulated over the last few decades. By the looks of things, itís going to be totalitarian oppression and military expansionism. That wonít end well for them. History shows us that.
Ha. That is so wrong. Everything you said about China was the path the Americans took as well. The big difference is the Americans now have no fall back. They are in a decline whereas the Chinese recognise that things are changing and so are they. They are moving their production outside the country. Expanding their base outside their country without military means, which the Americans have found to their detriment that only lasts so long.

I do feel the next century is the Chinese influence, and then it will switch to someone like India. The Americans time has come and gone.

The west need cheap products. That is always going to be the Chinese no matter where it is made. They have had the foresight to recognise that. The west will not accept a government that makes them pay more.

I would hazard a guess you have never been to China? There environment is pretty much the same as the US. Lots of built up areas but SO much beautiful natural landscapes all over the country.

China now is just the US 50 years ago. Everything changes and so it should or things would just deteriorate.
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:37
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 38
'I would hazard a guess you have never been to China?'

As cxorcist presumably works for an airline based in China .....then I think you made a pretty shit guess.

cabbages is offline  
Old 24th May 2020, 19:43
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by cabbages View Post
'I would hazard a guess you have never been to China?'

As cxorcist presumably works for an airline based in China .....then I think you made a pretty shit guess.
If he has there is no way he could have made that comment. China is one of the most beautiful countries imaginable. Granted it has some shit places but then so does the US, Australia, UK (ok bad example as there are more than normal shit places in the U.K., and I live here!)

I wouldnít say he works in China if he works for Cathay. Isnít that the crux of the problem? Most donĎt think Hong Kong is part of China. Get over it. It is
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:49
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 825
Yes it is. But they were guaranteed two systems for 50 years.
Less Hair is offline  
Old 24th May 2020, 19:55
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 813
Hightlfyer40: "china is now just the US 50 years ago...". ?? Yup, 50 years ago the US was a totalitarian dictatorship with it's people imprisoned. Got it. Thanks for the dumbest comment of the week.
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:58
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 813
Highflyer40: That's not how the HK people see it...and no, they won't "get over it". Keep posting, as it helps me keep perspective on how some of us are completely clueless.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 24th May 2020, 19:59
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
Yes it is. But they were guaranteed two systems for 50 years.
Donít be so naive. What is ďguaranteed in lifeĒ except taxes and death. Anyone that accepted that was brain dead.
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Old 24th May 2020, 20:00
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 813
Nothing is "guaranteed". At least the people of HK are willing to fight for their futures. Better than being subsumed by a totalitarian nightmare. I'm guessing you just want the locals to "calm down" so it doesn't upset your comfortable little expat career. Too late for that I might add...
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Old 24th May 2020, 20:04
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Hightlfyer40: "china is now just the US 50 years ago...". ?? Yup, 50 years ago the US was a totalitarian dictatorship with it's people imprisoned. Got it. Thanks for the dumbest comment of the week.
I meant 50 years ago the US was projecting
its power all over the world and taking what they could no matter the impact. This is China now. The next 50-70 years will be Chinese dominated and then we will switch to whoever rises to prominence once the Chinese decline starts. Itís a natural progression. Everything changes no matter how much you want it to stay the same.
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