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Base Training, Command Courses, POS18 and job cuts

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Base Training, Command Courses, POS18 and job cuts

Old 17th May 2020, 06:55
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Absolutely

During the SYD base mess the guys taking VR only got 6 months.


Originally Posted by mngmt mole
Slasher. One thing I can certainly dissuade you of is the idea they will be offering an "attractive" redundancy package. Not going to happen.
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:47
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I’m sure that you can use your extended furloughs to spare a thought for Barnaby and Merlin Swire who, despite losing £280 million last year, still managed to rise from 27th to (25th in the Sunday Times Rich List. Their net worth declined to a paltry £4,800,000,000....😑
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Old 17th May 2020, 13:03
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Poor guys, maybe we could start a crowd fund?

a Rolls Royce oil change doesn’t come cheap..
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Old 18th May 2020, 10:53
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Speaking of which, why would they still allow the low experience guy entering the workforce without paying anything upfront? As far as I know, many airlines do require a certain down payment from their perspective cadets and then reimburse them through salary once they start flying with them. Isn’t it another way to save cost?
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Old 18th May 2020, 12:07
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No it doesn’t, rudderless ship it is.
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Old 18th May 2020, 13:23
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Course it does. They are on COS18, Dah.
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Old 19th May 2020, 01:06
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It could be a good thing for us. Be hard to justify making anyone redundant when they still have kids in the training pipeline.

Last edited by doolay; 19th May 2020 at 01:40.
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Old 19th May 2020, 13:16
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Originally Posted by doolay
It could be a good thing for us. Be hard to justify making anyone redundant when they still have kids in the training pipeline.
Remember when they weren’t “kids” in the “training pipeline”? It wasn’t that long ago. What has happened to CX? So sad!
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Old 19th May 2020, 23:50
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So in summary, the company should have laid off guys a while ago, the more the better. Aviation is starting up again so best they lay them off before they need them. BA and it’s competitors in Europe aren’t laying off based on seniority, they’re doing whatever they need or want to do and BALPA can’t stop it.

But here in Hong Kong, the average more senior ppruner thinks - follow seniority, lay-off lots so the company is saved and I keep my job but btw don’t downgrade me.
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Old 20th May 2020, 01:18
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck
...But here in Hong Kong, the average more senior ppruner thinks - follow seniority, lay-off lots so the company is saved and I keep my job but btw don’t downgrade me.
Yes. Because that’s exactly how the contract is written.
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Old 20th May 2020, 01:34
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Originally Posted by DessertRat
Yes. Because that’s exactly how the contract is written.
And as BA has stated, the choice is layoff as per contract and the company goes bust, or layoff as per what's feasible for the company's survival. So you're keen to layoff as per the contract so the company goes to the wall and 29,000 lose their jobs. You can't layoff on the 747 fleet, how are people so dumb they can't see that. Likewise if the company needs top drag from the 777 fleet to the 747 inspire of the Airbus, they will.

You need to go read BA's reply to BALPA.......
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Old 20th May 2020, 04:33
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I believe the HM's Exchequer said that there won't be money for 1000+ conversion courses in order to honor seniority.

Fleet layoffs are the requirement for government money to arrive at BA and VS.

Originally Posted by Pickuptruck
And as BA has stated, the choice is layoff as per contract and the company goes bust, or layoff as per what's feasible for the company's survival. So you're keen to layoff as per the contract so the company goes to the wall and 29,000 lose their jobs. You can't layoff on the 747 fleet, how are people so dumb they can't see that. Likewise if the company needs top drag from the 777 fleet to the 747 inspire of the Airbus, they will.

You need to go read BA's reply to BALPA.......
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:14
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It doesn't matter if it's COVID, SARS, GFC, 9/11...a Contract is a Contract. Otherwise where do the excuses end?

...'oh it's a Tuesday, we certainly can't keep to the Contract obviously it being a Tuesday and all.'

It's these sort of events that we are experiencing right now that are the exact reason we have legally binding Contracts, so Companies can not do whatever they please.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:46
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the company will be hammering the force majeure scenario to wriggle out of contractual obligations like night follows day
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:58
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Originally Posted by JMock
the company will be hammering the force majeure scenario to wriggle out of contractual obligations like night follows day
I feel sorry if your contract encloses a "force majeure" clause. Mine doesn't.

​​​​​​I actually agree that they can actually do what they want. But in the end, it's going to be up to a judge to decide if what they did was legal or not.

In the Paris base closure scenario, not only did it cost the company millions, it also cost two managers their job.

​​​​​​Hopefully, the remaining managers learned from their predecessors' mistakes.
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Old 20th May 2020, 18:37
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..."managers learning from their mistakes"....! You DO know which airline we work for don't you??
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Old 24th May 2020, 15:32
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck
So in summary, the company should have laid off guys a while ago, the more the better. Aviation is starting up again so best they lay them off before they need them. BA and it’s competitors in Europe aren’t laying off based on seniority, they’re doing whatever they need or want to do and BALPA can’t stop it.

But here in Hong Kong, the average more senior ppruner thinks - follow seniority, lay-off lots so the company is saved and I keep my job but btw don’t downgrade me.
No, many senior ppruners may think; I've been in this industry a long time, taken my licks. Some have had several furloughs in previous lives. Some even ended up here at this god forsaken place over them. Maybe they are thinking; When is it my turn to benefit from hard earned seniority? Yeah I know, what selfishness huh?

And then you have the participation trophy entitled kid on the bottom of the list that thinks that life's setbacks don't somehow apply to him too. Well, maybe they won't and don't with the perverted system we have in place here and you will get off light, but as far as it concerns me, don't expect that I'll be picking up your tab too. I already paid my dues here and elsewhere. More than once. It is your turn now. Sadly.

Welcome to the industry.

Last edited by Vtwin; 24th May 2020 at 15:49.
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Old 24th May 2020, 18:03
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Very eloquently stated Vtwin. Sadly, the logic and poignancy of what you explain will be lost on the "entitled generation", and our cynical management will use that very same logic against us in the coming weeks. As William Wallace once cried....Freedom ! (and ultimately that means exiting this toxic place).
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Old 24th May 2020, 22:42
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Wallace didn't cry for freedom on the internet and then compromised in real life.
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Old 24th May 2020, 23:48
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure you are without sin. Got it.
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