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Airlines Going Under

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Airlines Going Under

Old 9th May 2020, 03:59
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Box and others offended,
My bad! That wasn’t my intention. It was more of a statements about how crappy CoS18 is than about those willing to take it during hard times. We all fall off the pedestal at some point. Most of us do it more than once. I certainly have and may yet again if the sh!t hits the fan at CX.
Compared to what? BOAC captains? Starting pay first year cadet at CX is better than first year at Ryanair, BA, etc. You obviously haven't got a clue what other airlines are paying. The cheapest I've seen is earning 1000 Euro a month RHS on a 320 in Europe. You think COS 18 is worse.
Boxjockey, another full of sh*t poster on here. You have any idea at all what destitute means? Sleeping in your car in the carpark mall with 2 kids in the back. Getting woken up every 3 hrs by security and told to move on. Washing in a public bathroom, queuing at a soup kitchen, trying to get a job with no fixed address, trying to stay current as a pilot so you can find a job. You have no idea what the guys out of work in this profession are going through right now. So wind your head in, when you say you'd rather be destitute. You have no clue.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 02:14
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 2,009
Pickup,

You are the problem! First year pay? What about the rest of the contract? Destitute? You are comparing a pilot to an unemployed and homeless person. Why? Pilots are capable of much more than flying. We can do many other things. History shows us that. During every downturn, many pilots have left flying and never returned because they found better gigs elsewhere. Wake up JA!
cxorcist is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 02:52
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
Compared to what? BOAC captains? Starting pay first year cadet at CX is better than first year at Ryanair, BA, etc. You obviously haven't got a clue what other airlines are paying. The cheapest I've seen is earning 1000 Euro a month RHS on a 320 in Europe. You think COS 18 is worse.....
With seniority there is no 'mobility of labour', so pay rates only matter for attracting enough at the bottom. One has to also consider quality of life, cost of living etc. $ alone is only one aspect of a gig. Once the golden handcuffs are in place one can't move, so one must fight for what you have. If the company will fail without concessions I will make concessions to keep myself employed. Once the company is back in profit I would expect my sacrifices to be recognised and to share in those profits.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 03:33
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
. Once the company is back in profit I would expect my sacrifices to be recognised and to share in those profits.
Such hopes are at best wishful thinking, and more likely, simply naive.

With all due respect, history has shown, that they have seldom, given anything back, once taken.
I would humbly suggest that unless our HKAOA obtain in writing, exactly what or how much of any concession will be returned once CX return to profitability, that the chances of a voluntary return is so slim a possibility, as to not being worth considering.
LongTimeInCX is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 05:53
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by LongTimeInCX View Post
Such hopes are at best wishful thinking, and more likely, simply naive.

With all due respect, history has shown, that they have seldom, given anything back, once taken.
I would humbly suggest that unless our HKAOA obtain in writing, exactly what or how much of any concession will be returned once CX return to profitability, that the chances of a voluntary return is so slim a possibility, as to not being worth considering.
I think we have to be realistic. The corollary of expecting a “payback” in good times would be to take a proportional cut during the bad.
At the moment we are obviously losing a lot of money far more that the monthly reduction due to SLS (cos18 excepted). Purely a personal opinion but I am amazed that we haven’t as yet seen redundancies. I know at times we all have our gripes about the company but talking to my mates in BA and Virgin is sobering ( normally it isn’t !)

AllWobbly is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 08:49
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 547
I don’t think we would require being “paid back” any income lost during a (defined) period of hardship for the company, personally I would already be satisfied with not permanently give up any terms and conditions (which we would indeed never get back). In other words, any concessions made (such as a salary sacrifice) should be limited in time, after which an automatic return to current terms and conditions occurs.

Anything else is just trying to take advantage of the current crisis to permanently cut unit costs and our income/quality of life. If they don’t need our labour, redundancies are natural; but if they want to keep the frontline workforce intact in view of making a killing post-crisis, then asking for permanent concessions is not acceptable.
main_dog is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 21:38
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Sin
Age: 49
Posts: 71
Do I want to be out of work?
Do I want a year of unpaid leave?
Should I stick to my rigid views about the company?

No .

I read about expats working for free in Vietnam. Donating their time to save the company.

Would you rather donate your time without pay or loose your job?

A bit like Ronald Regan who said he’d rather be dead than red .
TheGreenDragon is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 22:49
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,791
Originally Posted by TheGreenDragon View Post
I read about expats working for free in Vietnam. Donating their time to save the company.

Would you rather donate your time without pay or loose your job?
GD

I hope you are OK. Tough times for many.

I read about one expat guy only? There's thread running over on the Far East forum. Not sure if that's your info' source and it certainly seems he's upset locals and expats alike. Some suggesting upsetting locals in that country means sleeping with one eye open for the rest of your contract!
Gnadenburg is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 01:50
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by main_dog View Post
I don’t think we would require being “paid back” any income lost during a (defined) period of hardship for the company, personally I would already be satisfied with not permanently give up any terms and conditions (which we would indeed never get back). In other words, any concessions made (such as a salary sacrifice) should be limited in time, after which an automatic return to current terms and conditions occurs.

Anything else is just trying to take advantage of the current crisis to permanently cut unit costs and our income/quality of life. If they don’t need our labour, redundancies are natural; but if they want to keep the frontline workforce intact in view of making a killing post-crisis, then asking for permanent concessions is not acceptable.
Thanks for this very succinct and sensible post. It helped me clarify our position.
Bangaluru is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 02:20
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 19
Perhaps a better way for the company to implement a temporary pay cut would to introduce a compensation scheme on salary sacrificing rewarded with Cathay Pacific share allocation. For example, for every HK$9 (being current share price) of pay reduction one CX share is allocated. These shares do not fully vest for three years or normal retirement, whichever comes first. If you leave before the three years you get zero. This keeps us all "in the game" and on side.
never ready is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 04:26
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 171
Not a bad idea.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 04:40
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Extreme
Posts: 302
[/QUOTE]rewarded with Cathay Pacific share allocation
[QUOTE]

No. No. No. No.
They will just reissue a different class of share later and screw you.
Shot Nancy is offline  

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