Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Who else is saying "Hell no" to this ridiculous SLS BS?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Who else is saying "Hell no" to this ridiculous SLS BS?

Old 11th Feb 2020, 11:35
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 7
Who else is saying "Hell no" to this ridiculous SLS BS?

Fool me once, shame on me.Continue to shaft me 100 more ways for years, and yah, alright, should be good this time, no problem, seems fair. Good idea.
lightlysalted is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2020, 11:47
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,455
Err... any context / reference might be usefull
atakacs is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2020, 13:18
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 18
CX have asked pilots to volunteer for 3 weeks unpaid leave as a result of the downturn due to the virus outbreak. This comes after many years of management attacking pilot's conditions and taking any opportunity to take without anything in return.
In an ideal work environment, the pilot group would help immediately, as the company have helped them in the past. This is not the case here.
G Merch is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2020, 14:33
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 302
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...-from-82-to-30

Time to wake up and smell the coffee - time to dust off your cv's !
Twiglet1 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2020, 01:23
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 341
time to dust off your cv's !
CV’s should have been dusted of long ago. It may be too late now. The global recruitment market is slowing rapidly.

Contract expats being sent home from China all looking for work. Legacy carriers cutting routes and capacity. No need for new drivers when you’re asking your current ones to take LWOP.

China accused of underreporting true outbreak figures and suppressing actual infection rates.

WHO stating a vaccine may be years away.

Interesting times still ahead

Harbour Dweller is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2020, 04:35
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: usa
Posts: 4
Hell NO!!

Why would anyone jump to this!?
It just shows the weak pilot force we have. I cannot believe that pilots are willing to earn 3 weeks less this year after not getting a 13th month ( while our brother airline which is virtually grounded will still get theirs ), having no pay increase over the last 5 years, no Good faith from the company at all.

Now we asked to help but on the companies terms???? This is a joke!!!! It is crazy to think our pilots are considering this. Us 747 pilots are getting screwed again! Grow a spine people!
herewego75 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2020, 22:55
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 182
Just another employee engagement survey dressed up in a different form (to see what kind of outrageous behavior can be gotten away with and folks keep coming back and not standing up for themselves).

(yes, that's a no).
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 01:11
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 574
Pretty grave situation we have here, potentially worse than SARS as the virus does better in warmer and more humid conditions than SARS.
Not the time for industrial stuff..
Oasis is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 01:29
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 304
Oasis,
Not taking the SLS is not an industrial issue, just the result of a lack of trust that has been initiated and fostered by the company.
Why would there not be some sort of pledge to return the sacrificed salary in the future? Perhaps repay before there is any shareholder returns if there is a return to profitability. Or even go to the shareholders for a fund raising before extracting concessions from your employees?
Or perhaps, concede on some of the negotiating items that have been stonewalled by the company?
A lot of take and zero give does not motivate employees to help out
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 01:57
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Pretty grave situation we have here, potentially worse than SARS as the virus does better in warmer and more humid conditions than SARS.
Not the time for industrial stuff..
They have a contractural provision allowing for layoff and recall (with a degree of pay protection). Everyone here knew about this when joining (and I'd say those provisions have remained the same). Seniority, layoff, and recall are all part of any normal airline operation. Those are the ground rules. Let them simply follow the contract rather than trying to end run it with some scam.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 03:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: planet ****witt
Age: 33
Posts: 37
Spot on slasher.

This is an attempt by the company to circumvent the COS. Probably because if they followed the COS it would cost more money. They’d have to pay 6 months salary and full Pfund to the most junior crew. When we all know which demographic they want to take from.

i wouldn’t be surprised if some how this is used an excuse to cancel ARAPA. I know we are all thinking it. Experience is no longer valued and the ultimate goal of every airline is reduce costs. If not now then when?

how many will be tempted to sign from COS99 to POS18?

or how about the PBPA? Again the company shows us they want us off our current contracts onto POS18.

what would happen if they closed the Australian base and the PBPA said you have to return on POS18?

was this the plan all along?
reazasassain is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 03:53
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
They have a contractural provision allowing for layoff and recall (with a degree of pay protection). Everyone here knew about this when joining (and I'd say those provisions have remained the same). Seniority, layoff, and recall are all part of any normal airline operation. Those are the ground rules. Let them simply follow the contract rather than trying to end run it with some scam.
So you prefer layoffs? I guess your seniority is pretty high, as long as you're alright, jack?
Oasis is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 03:54
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 506
When you work for a third world airline, sooner or later you have to expect third world outcomes. Really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
Apple Tree Yard is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 03:59
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 35,000 feet
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
So you prefer layoffs? I guess your seniority is pretty high, as long as you're alright, jack?
The point being many of us have stayed here because we have accrued a lot of seniority and is the reason we did not go somewhere else and be on the bottom of the list.
viking avenger is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 04:12
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
So you prefer layoffs? I guess your seniority is pretty high, as long as you're alright, jack?
Absolutely prefer layoffs -- that's what the contract say. And a year or so off with 6 months pay (perhaps more; who knows--and recall rights in order of seniority) comes out to be a decent part time roster. Not really that high in seniority; but not on POS 18 either. And more than wiling to accept a layoff IAW the terms of the COS. Which is what I knew might happen when I joined if a downturn occurred. In fact, it's the only fair and right way to do things at the end of the day.

For what you allude to, the 'alright jack' portion has come from continuously decreasing (imposed) contracts from a limitless supply of new labor where different groups are played off against one another tossing out the rule book altogether. And the pilot body has pretty much played right along as would be doing what you seem to suggest. As will those who've accepted knowingly inferior conditions despite knowing they are undermining the future of the group of pilots altogether as they joined. Well, let the company reckon with the situation they have created and imposed and retrench as necessary. If they get to my number that's fine by me (so long as they agree to do what they said in the COS). This is simply one more scam to end-run the contract.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 05:08
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 304
What would be a better outcome for the current pilot body?

X00 pilots made redundant IAW their COS with rights to recall in seniority order, or

Continual surrender of SLS, pay and conditions and the company then hiring X00 out of work ex HKAirlines pilots on a new cost saving COS20 when they fold?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 05:08
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: B050 No SAR No Details
Posts: 30
Last year (Sept), an interim dividend was paid to shareholders a month before a profit warning was announced as a result of the protests - yet we managed to buy another airline outright. We haven't had another profit warning from Augustus but he has told the stock exchange that we are in a strong position to weather this current situation - just 2 weeks before telling the staff they should all take time off to help the bottom line. I'm no financial wizard, but something doesn't smell right.

If I knew I didn't have work for my staff, I'd love it if I didn't have to pay them when things were tough without actually letting that experience leave the fold. If you let someone go, they'll think twice about coming back and they'll definitely be looking elsewhere for work (if it's available) - doubly so if they moved to Hong Kong from another part of the world.

We're not contractors that can be let go at a moments' notice, a full-time contract is what I signed with the obligations defined that apply to both parties.
mothy1583 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 05:12
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
Absolutely prefer layoffs -- that's what the contract say. And a year or so off with 6 months pay (perhaps more; who knows--and recall rights in order of seniority) comes out to be a decent part time roster. Not really that high in seniority; but not on POS 18 either. And more than wiling to accept a layoff IAW the terms of the COS. Which is what I knew might happen when I joined if a downturn occurred. In fact, it's the only fair and right way to do things at the end of the day.

For what you allude to, the 'alright jack' portion has come from continuously decreasing (imposed) contracts from a limitless supply of new labor where different groups are played off against one another tossing out the rule book altogether. And the pilot body has pretty much played right along as would be doing what you seem to suggest. As will those who've accepted knowingly inferior conditions despite knowing they are undermining the future of the group of pilots altogether as they joined. Well, let the company reckon with the situation they have created and imposed and retrench as necessary. If they get to my number that's fine by me (so long as they agree to do what they said in the COS). This is simply one more scam to end-run the contract.
You're pretty selfish in my eyes.
Oasis is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 05:26
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
What would be a better outcome for the current pilot body?

X00 pilots made redundant IAW their COS with rights to recall in seniority order, or

Continual surrender of SLS, pay and conditions and the company then hiring X00 out of work ex HKAirlines pilots on a new cost saving COS20 when they fold?
Exactly. We have enabled bad behavior for far too long.

Any situation — good or bad — has been exploited as an opportunity to chip away at working conditions and pay.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 07:29
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The sky
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
So you prefer layoffs? I guess your seniority is pretty high, as long as you're alright, jack?

Actually yes. We have a 3 month pay out for a layoff which is what prevents these short term panic type layoffs. Lay me off please, pay me to find a job elsewhere and then pay me to come back on my original pay scale, sure!
Natca is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.