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Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Unpaid leave offer

Old 7th Feb 2020, 06:19
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Well for some of you rocket scientist out there, those are managers, they manage the situation and steering the ship, you on the other hand are bus drivers, soon to be replaced by AI, cheap labor not required at the moment.

Iím not surprised that management views pilots as idiots if I read those comments.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 07:13
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Not forgetting the Sunday Times Rich List 2019...

27 BARNABY AND MERLIN SWIRE AND FAMILY
Industry, Transport and Property
£5.08bn ▲£1.78bn

Swire Group prides itself on its motto “Esse quam videri”– Latin for “To be, rather than to seem to be”. Swire, 55, chairs the 203-year-old conglomerate, which operates largely in southeast Asia and controls Swire Pacific, a Hong Kong-quoted firm with interests in Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon airlines and a host of other activities. His cousin Merlin, 45, leads this arm of the business, which in 2012 floated its Swire Properties subsidiary, worth £19.6bn after rising £5bn in a year. In 2017 the family’s London holding company showed £12.7bn assets. We believe the Swires own 45% of the operation.
2018: £3.3bn, 39
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 07:48
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Chickenpox? With itís annual global death rate of around 3,000? Year after year after year.

This thing has some way to go before itís up there with chickenpox.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 08:45
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by el commandante View Post
Well for some of you rocket scientist out there, those are managers, they manage the situation and steering the ship, you on the other hand are bus drivers, soon to be replaced by AI, cheap labor not required at the moment.

Iím not surprised that management views pilots as idiots if I read those comments.
As I recall, most of the senior guys and girls in engineering didnít even get to take their SLS as they were working flat out managing a fleet of aircraft that no-one wanted to fly on. Organizing parking, storage, low utilization programs. Rejigging maintenance and support contracts. Keeping a business running so that it could be ramped up after the crisis passed. Remember that there were no redundancies during the SARS crisis.

And from what I know, the same teams are working very long hours at the moment to deal with the current crisis, to keep an airline running and everyone in a job.

Very few of these staff that are working flat out to keep the lights on are expats on huge packages. Most are ordinary folk, on very ordinary salaries doing extraordinary jobs, so everyone keeps theirs.

On top of that, these teams are still hollowed out from the redundancies a couple of years ago.

So bear that in mind when posting about the injustice of SLS.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 14:19
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by el commandante View Post
Well for some of you rocket scientist out there, those are managers, they manage the situation and steering the ship, you on the other hand are bus drivers, soon to be replaced by AI, cheap labor not required at the moment.

Iím not surprised that management views pilots as idiots if I read those comments.
Seriously! What planet are these guys living on. Who the heck is going to get this company out of this mess if upper/executive management disappears and goes on 3 weeks of leave. We are not that important... Face the fact that having a surplus of pilots is useless and a drag on the bottom line when you have to resort to cutting routes and parking planes to survive. This is especially true for the senior A scale guys who are getting paid insane amounts of money (in todayís world) on their expat packages and are likely the people posting all the entitled/absolutely whack garbage on this forum. A break and a healthy dose of reality might be good for you all! CX could easily just start laying off people (Not that you d***heads would give a damn since youíre probably sitting comfortably at the top end of seniority - in fact some of you sick f***s are wishing for layoffs), but theyíre doing everything they can to not have to resort to that, which is a nice gesture for those at the lower end of seniority whose jobs are at risk. You folks are so freaking toxic.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 15:45
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Porterboy View Post
Seriously! What planet are these guys living on. Who the heck is going to get this company out of this mess if upper/executive management disappears and goes on 3 weeks of leave. We are not that important... Face the fact that having a surplus of pilots is useless and a drag on the bottom line when you have to resort to cutting routes and parking planes to survive. This is especially true for the senior A scale guys who are getting paid insane amounts of money (in today’s world) on their expat packages and are likely the people posting all the entitled/absolutely whack garbage on this forum. A break and a healthy dose of reality might be good for you all! CX could easily just start laying off people (Not that you d***heads would give a damn since you’re probably sitting comfortably at the top end of seniority - in fact some of you sick f***s are wishing for layoffs), but they’re doing everything they can to not have to resort to that, which is a nice gesture for those at the lower end of seniority whose jobs are at risk. You folks are so freaking toxic.
LOL.....these are the same individuals who signed up for things like POS 18/19/20 knowingly undermining the continuously declining COSs ? And enabled the company to continue its plan of so doing ? And enabled the workforce to become divided against itself ? After just about everyone on the planet warned them about what they might be getting into. Now they're crying 'foul' ?

Who knew they were signing up in a seniority based business with layoff/recall procedures clearly defined in the COS ? (and which is industry standard pretty much everywhere). The same seniority system that 'trapped' people who might have otherwise bolted for greener pastures. Yup....the seniority system is a b!tch, it has its advantages and drawbacks, but the one thing it does do is clearly define the ground rules. And no one has been able to come up with something 'better' because the 'better' tends to become arbitrary and often causes more harm than it might solve.

Now, the company wants to circumvent its legitimate contractural responsibilities under this system which it set up for itself. Let it follow the contract. Lay people off as necessary (you'll find SOME of the COSs having some fairly decent layoff provisions--ones the company is specifically attempting not to have to pay). The rules for situations like this have been thoroughly delineated within the contract. The only 'toxic' or 'bad' behavior would be in enabling the company to continue what it's done over the years; this is an opportunity to force it to do the right thing.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 15:55
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Sorry. Youíre talking bollocks. The company redundancy provision is shit. Less than 6 months pay.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 16:18
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Globocnik View Post
Sorry. You’re talking bollocks. The company redundancy provision is shit. Less than 6 months pay.
For some of us -- when inclusive with recall rights delineated in the COS/CA/CBA being enforced -- 6 months is actually quite good and results in a win.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 06:48
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I don't see Cathy Dragon or Cathy coming out of this. I'd be preparing for the rock n roll sorry to say this.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 06:51
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Hmmm!...why does slasher 1 remind me of slasher from 20 yrs ago!.?
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 07:53
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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With mainland airlines laying off....ooops..I meant sending on unpaid leave their foreign pilots, suddenly CX HR will find itself drowning in a pool of type qualified and experienced pilots who they can pretty much put to work immediately.

Think twice about rocking the boat, your indispensability is probably not as solid gold as it was a week ago.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 12:49
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
With mainland airlines laying off....ooops..I meant sending on unpaid leave their foreign pilots, suddenly CX HR will find itself drowning in a pool of type qualified and experienced pilots who they can pretty much put to work immediately.

Think twice about rocking the boat, your indispensability is probably not as solid gold as it was a week ago.
Fear (at least of something as mundane as a job loss) doesnít work anymore. Might wanna try something else.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 14:52
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
Fear (at least of something as mundane as a job loss) doesnít work anymore. Might wanna try something else.
Correct, the job just isnít what it used to be. A layoff wouldíve a temporary inconvenience, and perhaps even a blessing in the long term.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 20:45
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Cutting half their flights for two months.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...lled-more-half
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 03:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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CX pay rates (A Scale and below) no longer match other airlines. No one here is 'getting paid insane amounts of money'.

Anyone who has been at CX for more than a few months would have been screwed over one way or another. We have been treated so poorly why should we help the company out? The company survived the fuel hedge, it will survive the Wuhan virus. I saw the same panic and BS during SARS, I'm not worried at all about the future of CX. There is no real need for SLS, the company always takes an opportunity to take money off the staff.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 11:06
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Iím thinking we should all take the leave, things are looking pretty bad for cx at the moment.
double whammy after the protests.. no forward booking and some guy decided to give money back to the pax if they want to cancel.
nobody in hkg gives your money back, you always get money towards another purchase..

unbelievable
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 00:11
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Fear is a natural human reaction to the unknown, however the constant abuse of the pilot body has numbed it to fear and intimidation. The CX management reap what they sow. I expect a very low volunteer sign up from the pilot community unless there is a written and binding set of conditions on not only the return of the SLS funds, but resolution to the numerous open negotiation items.
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