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The HKAOA in 2019. Your views.

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The HKAOA in 2019. Your views.

Old 9th Nov 2019, 23:36
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2018
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The HKAOA in 2019. Your views.

An honest question:

What has the HKAOA achieved for its members since TA18 was rejected almost a year ago?

This is a question I’m hearing all too often. Are you?
Airblast is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2019, 14:33
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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The AOA goes through it's ups and downs just like any other org. The AOA has a particular difficulty in that it is dealing with an effectively lawless jurisdiction (HK), and a company that fully exploits that lawlessness. The truth is that other than a few weak characters that took training slots, the company still needs about another 60 people, and they aren't getting them. Sometimes it is darkest before the dawn, but the company is slowly suffocating from the consequences of 25+ years of cynical and self-serving attacks against their most valuable employees. The tide IS turning, and those that stand strong on principal will eventually see a reward for their patience. Needless to say, the contempt for those who chose self gain at the expense of their colleagues will be deep and lasting. The AOA will have its day again, and the company will surely see that their policies of the past 25 years has been mostly damaging to their brand, position in the industry and ultimately, their reputation and market value. There was a reason that CX was so successful in the 70's and 80's. It was because they chose to recognise excellence, both in their product, AND their employees. The moment a group of venal and self-serving managers took control, CX began its slow decent towards mediocrity. Here we now wallow. One day we will rise again, but that day will only come when they once again respect and value their employees. That same reason is why the US industry is largely ascendant, because they woke up to that fact. Don't write off the AOA.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2019, 15:10
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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It has achieved (and I believe represented) exactly what its membership would endorse and/or back. It has exactly the will and fortitude of the collective of its membership.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2019, 22:56
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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The negotiating committee can’t exactly say to the company that unless we get what we are demanding we will down tools on a certain date when they know darn well that the members with a few exceptions are too weak to walk out
it kind of weakens their hand . So if you are looking for someone to blame look in the mirror you will see the answer .
this has been going on since 99 . If we had stood strong then we would not be in the position that we currently in
cannot is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2019, 01:55
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
The truth is that other than a few weak characters that took training slots, the company still needs about another 60 people, and they aren't getting them.
Just curious where you get your numbers from AP? From where I sit, seems to be no shortage of new TC's and current TC's upgrading to STC, especially on the Airbus fleet. But please remember, they were forced to do it...
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2019, 02:07
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
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What does CX have of immense value? HK slots, a proper base, with structure in HK and the lion’s share of parking space, gates, and terminal square footage. In short, the lions share of everything at the airport to enhance it’s pseudo monopoly status. Most favoured son status at HKIA is a money printing machine for CX.

What do the major mainland China airlines desire most in HK? All of the above.

The unanswered question to date is whether the HKAOA membership is the Golden Goose or merely one of its eggs.

Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see which mainland airline eventually gets its hands on that money printing machine.
lucille is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2019, 07:21
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Inside sources reveal that they are still short almost 60 trainers. The low hanging fruit has already been picked (more to the point, the "rotten" fruit freely fallen into the basket !). The company is really not much better off overall, and in some cases it has caused them even more problems, as they need to divert training resources to train the trainers. The pipeline gets more clogged by the day.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 08:03
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
The truth is that other than a few weak characters that took training slots, the company still needs about another 60 people, and they aren't getting them. .
Air Profit, I suppose it is PPRuNe and bullsh*t reigns supreme. Dozen or so courses so far and 8 per course is more than a “few”. 5 seconds looking at the roster would show you that.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 09:14
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 392
Dear God.

I have just got around to my emails, and read about the Traffic Light System.

Sorry to sound like a hysterical, "woke" feminist, but seriously? That's the answer? Judging by how everyone turns up fully prepared at my dispatch table, I can only assume we are already on "Yellow-y, tinge of green"?

Please, please, do better. (and yes, I've been one of the try-ers).

If management is not sending you a strong enough signal, then listen to AP's Rotten Fruit, or failing that, the appalling vote results to TP's motion.
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2019, 23:37
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How is the traffic light CC meant to be ‘effective against crew Ops’?

Surely Crew Ops will operate on the principle that nothing has changed ie. full CC, whatever the traffic light is set at, and welcome any other version of CC as fortuitous.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 03:26
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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I think the union is going to install a set of lights in Crew Ops (sort of like a red-telephone-in-a-glass-jar hotline) and change the lights as the situation develops so Crew Ops are constantly on their toes.
mothy1583 is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2019, 04:16
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Stop whining like a bunch of old women.

The GC are giving you a democratic option. If your preference is for the union to maintain the status quo then simply vote for that. Or better yet, propose an amendment over the next week. Bitching because you’ve actually got to make a decision and go to all the effort of logging onto the website and casting a vote says more about you and your involvement than it says about the GC.
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2019, 05:00
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Put in a motion and hope you can achieve 67% of the vote!!! What’s the point? The GC is so desperate to keep CC alive, why? It is not achieving anything.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 05:30
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Ahh, that 67% rule that the members proposed and voted for despite the objections of the GC?
Which way did you vote? Or were you like most and found voting too tedious?
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2019, 06:28
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Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post
Ahh, that 67% rule that the members proposed and voted for despite the objections of the GC?
Which way did you vote? Or were you like most and found voting too tedious?
Is this the same GC that was showing such glowing leadership in December 2018 and in the following months? And you wonder why the ‘objections of the GC’ get ignored?

Blaming the members or their apathy should prompt the GC into a bit of soul searching about its leadership and policy skills.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 07:25
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Originally Posted by Airblast View Post
An honest question:

What has the HKAOA achieved for its members since TA18 was rejected almost a year ago?

This is a question I’m hearing all too often. Are you?

Absolutely Nothing!
petrichor is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 16:31
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: HKG
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Devil

I would say that the AOA have done creditable job in protecting all CX pilots by consistently negotiating down the planned excesses of management over the past 20 years.

The downward spiral continues because of the total failure of the majority of CX pilots to put their money where their mouths are and vote for (and enact) a complete labour stoppage.

Now it has been left so late that there is nothing left to salvage.

Well done CX pilots.
BusyB is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 14:31
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by BusyB View Post
I would say that the AOA have done creditable job in protecting all CX pilots by consistently negotiating down the planned excesses of management over the past 20 years.

The downward spiral continues because of the total failure of the majority of CX pilots to put their money where their mouths are and vote for (and enact) a complete labour stoppage.

Now it has been left so late that there is nothing left to salvage.

Well done CX pilots.
And yet some of the currently most mouthy skippers (with their nice little nest eggs from CX housing) had their tongues firmly in the company's asshole back when they were F/O and S/Os..........
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 16:57
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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"Mouthy skippers". OK, very unlike mouthy FO's or mouthy SO's. Not a productive comment mate. Just saying.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 19:07
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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Irritated

Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
And yet some of the currently most mouthy skippers (with their nice little nest eggs from CX housing) had their tongues firmly in the company's asshole back when they were F/O and S/Os..........
Wrong, you simply "got" housing, period. No tongue required.
And you sir, sound like someone who signed a COS for something considerably less... Anger shows :-)
Flex88 is offline  

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