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The End of HK as we know it

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

The End of HK as we know it

Old 5th Sep 2019, 09:30
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,695
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Because I joined on A scale, bought and sold 4 houses and made a lot of money. Next question.

Sounds about right, jump in the Ferrari and drive into the sunset will ya mate. You are making a goose out of yourself and rubbing salt in everyone else’s wounds.

Most A scale guys I know are extremely humble and realize how fortunate they were to join pre 1994, we look up to them....they don’t rub it in our faces.....you on the other hand.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 10:49
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3


I lived in the Marina until last year. It is without doubt one of the nicest 'living' experiences that I have come across in HK. For a family it proves far more satisfying than a shoebox apartment could ever provide. My boat had a huge outer deck on the top level with bbq, wet bar and enough room for 15 people to have dinner..! The master bdrm is bigger than most apartments. The only reason I sold was because I started commuting and I decided on a tiny (and I mean tiny!) place in Tung Chung.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 15:01
  #63 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Hmmm, don't think I was "rubbing salt" in anyone's wounds. I was explaining why I was still here. I joined on a sensible package. Obviously, you didn't. I was able to purchase several homes on the original scheme, and that, combined with other business opportunities (and family concerns) is why I am still "here". I am sorry that your package (which you obviously agreed to) was not as lucrative, but ultimately your decision (along with thousands of others who have accepted even less) is why you so resent people like myself. Let me tell you something: I would never have come to HK on the conditions that are now offered (or have been offered since about 2000). I would have stayed in my home country and established a sensible career. You, and many like you, are now resentful of the circumstances that you are now dealing with. I am sensitive to that, but not sympathetic. You made your choice, and I made mine. Don't condemn me for my more considered decision. Best wishes, and good luck.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 17:39
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Hmmm, don't think I was "rubbing salt" in anyone's wounds. I was explaining why I was still here. I joined on a sensible package. Obviously, you didn't. I was able to purchase several homes on the original scheme, and that, combined with other business opportunities (and family concerns) is why I am still "here". I am sorry that your package (which you obviously agreed to) was not as lucrative, but ultimately your decision (along with thousands of others who have accepted even less) is why you so resent people like myself. Let me tell you something: I would never have come to HK on the conditions that are now offered (or have been offered since about 2000). I would have stayed in my home country and established a sensible career. You, and many like you, are now resentful of the circumstances that you are now dealing with. I am sensitive to that, but not sympathetic. You made your choice, and I made mine. Don't condemn me for my more considered decision. Best wishes, and good luck.
That sounds good.

But what did you do to stop the condition degrading?
How many strikes did you organize or participate in?

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Old 5th Sep 2019, 23:57
  #65 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Well, if you are with CX, then about the same number as you. If you are not with CX, then your questions have no relevance.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 02:46
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Hmmm, don't think I was "rubbing salt" in anyone's wounds. I was explaining why I was still here. I joined on a sensible package. Obviously, you didn't. I was able to purchase several homes on the original scheme, and that, combined with other business opportunities (and family concerns) is why I am still "here". I am sorry that your package (which you obviously agreed to) was not as lucrative, but ultimately your decision (along with thousands of others who have accepted even less) is why you so resent people like myself. Let me tell you something: I would never have come to HK on the conditions that are now offered (or have been offered since about 2000). I would have stayed in my home country and established a sensible career. You, and many like you, are now resentful of the circumstances that you are now dealing with. I am sensitive to that, but not sympathetic. You made your choice, and I made mine. Don't condemn me for my more considered decision. Best wishes, and good luck.

I’ve done ok over 25 years here mate and I’m not resentful at all, just sick and tired of reading all the chest beating wanking going on in these forums. If some of you feel so hateful towards HK and Cx then for gods sake leave....
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 05:22
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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That's the problem with your attitude ACMS. All the company needs to do is make life "miserable" for a given group of pilots, like more senior highly paid ones, and voila, they have managed to undermine the pilots careers, and lower costs. So no buddy, myself and i'm sure other like MM aren't inclined to just push off because we are pissed off. In fact, it gives me even greater resolve to get my own back on them. In your world, you just run away with your tail between your legs, throw away all the seniority accrued and start over at the bottom somewhere else. Great plan. It's your type of chest beating wanking that i'm sick of hearing. Defeatist, and plays right into managements hands.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 06:42
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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What I do or do not do is none of your business. It's called the ability to voice an opinion, and if you don't like it, then you are free to not bother reading it. And if you've been here 25 years, then you have likely obtained the same benefit as MM was speaking of. The fact that people as senior as he are willing to describe CX as the toilet brush it has become is frankly commendable, as it would be easy for him to sit back (like you are doing) and say, " all is fine, i've got mine". Perhaps you could simply point out where his comments are incorrect or unwarranted. Might be more helpful than coming across as someone who is obliquely supporting things the way they are. As it is, you suggest we "should just leave", and again, wouldn't that be an all so easy way for management to keep wages and benefits low? Your attitude is actually the offensive one.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 06:53
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
What I do or do not do is none of your business. It's called the ability to voice an opinion, and if you don't like it, then you are free to not bother reading it. And if you've been here 25 years, then you have likely obtained the same benefit as MM was speaking of. The fact that people as senior as he are willing to describe CX as the toilet brush it has become is frankly commendable, as it would be easy for him to sit back (like you are doing) and say, " all is fine, i've got mine". Perhaps you could simply point out where his comments are incorrect or unwarranted. Might be more helpful than coming across as someone who is obliquely supporting things the way they are. As it is, you suggest we "should just leave", and again, wouldn't that be an all so easy way for management to keep wages and benefits low? Your attitude is actually the offensive one.
I deleted my post as it’s a waste of time.
I understand the problems we face day to day and it can be a struggle no doubt.
All I’m saying is that anyone that is so annoyed at them close to retirement probably should leave before they burst a valve.
The rest of us will just have to endure and take the pay on the 25th because we don’t have any better choice and have invested a lot here already.



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Old 6th Sep 2019, 07:07
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Deleted your post? OK, that reminds me of how my wife walks off when she's lost an argument. Not really quite sure why you bothered to be quite honest. As MM mentioned, baiting people (who have the facts on their side) doesn't really work out too well.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 10:38
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Well, if you are with CX, then about the same number as you. If you are not with CX, then your questions have no relevance.
No, I do not work for CX.

Yes, my questions still have relevance.

I keep seeing "old" pilot complaining about declining conditions(not only CX) and how this is the fault of those that came after them.

Yet they did nothing to stop that from happening, sitting fat and happy on their great contract.

Who do you think has got more power to stop that from happening?
The young new pilots that needs a job to start and pay back his debt or the "old" ones already working for the company, that can strike, support the union, etc.?
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 11:12
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 934
"Yet they did nothing to stop that from happening, sitting fat and happy on their great contract"

It's the way the world works I'm afraid - reminds me of Winston Bogarde - who played a handful of games for Chelsea and pocketed a fortune.... According to Bogarde, it would be next to impossible to find a team that would offer him a contract comparable to the one he had at Chelsea: he was astounded at the salary the club had agreed on, as his value depreciated severely due to lack of first-team action, and decided to stay and honour his contract to the letter and appear for training every day, despite being only rarely selected to play. Of his contract he said, "Why should I throw fifteen million Euro away when it is already mine? At the moment I signed it was in fact my money, my contract"; in the end, he only appeared 11 times during his four-year tenure, reportedly earning £40,000 a week during this period. He also observed, truthfully, that if he'd broken a leg he'd have been out on the street in seconds..........

You take care of yourself first I'm afraid
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 11:45
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
You take care of yourself first I'm afraid
Fine with that.

But then don't complain and attack and belittle others that were not as lucky as you because they came later.

Last edited by arketip; 6th Sep 2019 at 12:45.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 12:12
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 54
Some of you guys really do have an answer for everything don’t you?

Actually, I have no problem whatsoever with the fact you did so well out of CX and Hong Kong in general. You joined at the ‘right’ time, and you had the required experience at the time – congratulations.

However, please do us all a favour and have the good grace and humility to realise that you have had a fantastic innings. Constantly belittling your junior colleagues and moaning about your employment situation makes you look quite pathetic really… similar to a bunch of petulant, spoiled school kids.

Interestingly, the best senior Captains (A-scale if you like) I flew with at CX were those that understood the relative gap in T’s and C’s and focussed on working with their junior colleagues rather than against them. These Captains earned natural respect by respecting their colleagues on the flight deck and passing on their knowledge. 99.9% of Pilots I meet are more than capable of making their own choices, and young pilots can in no way be blamed for joining a contract that has been allowed to exist by the existing workforce.

We’re constantly told on this forum that we should leave CX and that CX is over, and yet now we are told that leaving is bad and that we are like headless chickens.

Well, I made my choice and left CX. I guess I’m in the headless chicken brigade… I wonder who is happier though?

Last edited by Roy De Kantzow; 6th Sep 2019 at 15:33.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 12:33
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
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Originally Posted by Roy De Kantzow View Post
Some of you guys really do have an answer for everything don’t you?

Actually, I have no problem whatsoever with the fact you did so well out of CX and Hong Kong in general. You joined at the ‘right’ time, and you had the required experience at the time – congratulations.

However, please do us all a favour and have the good grace and humility to realise that you have had a fantastic innings. Constantly belittling your junior colleagues and moaning about your employment situation makes you look quite pathetic really… similar to a bunch of petulant, spoiled school kids.

Interestingly, the best senior Captains (A-scale if you like) I flew with at CX were those that understood the relative gap in T’s and C’s and focussed on working with their junior colleagues rather than against them. These Captains earned natural respect by respecting their colleagues on the flight deck and passing on their knowledge. 99.9% of Pilots I meet are more than capable of making their own choices and conditions, and young pilots can in no way be blamed for joining a contract that has been allowed to exist by the existing workforce.

We’re constantly told on this forum that we should leave CX and that CX is over, and yet now we are told that leaving is bad and that we are like headless chickens.

Well, I made my choice and left CX. I guess I’m in the headless chicken brigade… I wonder who is happier though?
Amen!

Some guys apparently get a hard on by willy waving on an anonymous pilot forum.

Anyway, I thought this thread was not about the 4th house in the South of France or the 20 meter Beneteau, but about the developments in Honky and the consequences it might have on the local pilot work force.
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Old 6th Sep 2019, 13:55
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3
this was mngmnt moles post a few years ago.......he does seem to be very confused!

Originally Posted by Hugo Peroni the IV View Post

I lived in the Marina until last year. It is without doubt one of the nicest 'living' experiences that I have come across in HK. For a family it proves far more satisfying than a shoebox apartment could ever provide. My boat had a huge outer deck on the top level with bbq, wet bar and enough room for 15 people to have dinner..! The master bdrm is bigger than most apartments. The only reason I sold was because I started commuting and I decided on a tiny (and I mean tiny!) place in Tung Chung.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 13:12
  #77 (permalink)  
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Well, that didn't take long. Todays email from the new CEO, basically stating that the company is suffering (sob), and that we will surely "all pull together" to keep things afloat. Surprised he didn't mention the next round of SLS. Oh, forgot, that will come in the next email. Let me give you a small piece of advice. Once you repay the 10% that the previous management pettily withheld from me (and all the other Captains) from the last SLS, I might (might) consider it again. Without that dropping in my bank account, you can count on this Captain telling you to pack sand. I have a feeling most of the other Captains probably feel the same way. Might be a good idea to consider that your own management incompetents lost more in fuel hedging than you could ever obtain from withholding salary from your staff. What goes around comes around....
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 16:38
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 19
So “if the removal agent arrives next week”
Why care?
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 21:34
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 713
My guess is he doesn't really care. Just pointing out the obvious, something you seem to be oblivious to.

Last edited by Air Profit; 11th Sep 2019 at 23:59.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 09:09
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 19
Not really Ive probably been here a similar length of time.
if its that obvious then it hardly needs pointing out.
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