Any way to verfiy someone was "CAT D" on their upgrade?
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It is suppose to be a command course. Not a endless command check.
A course consists of a begging and end. The trainee reports on day one and the trainers equip them and guide the to success. Will some fail, of course. But should 50% fail?? Never.
If you consider the process that one must go through to get Cat A. All candidates should be ready. Clearly the screening process is garbage.
What’s the saying, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results means your crazy.
A course consists of a begging and end. The trainee reports on day one and the trainers equip them and guide the to success. Will some fail, of course. But should 50% fail?? Never.
If you consider the process that one must go through to get Cat A. All candidates should be ready. Clearly the screening process is garbage.
What’s the saying, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results means your crazy.
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Why would anyone seriously consider cx or ka at the moment ? Having to live in HK , 10 years to command and deal with this training regime all on similar pay to LCC carriers based in much much cheaper parts of Asia plus quick command ? For every 1 captain the Cathay group produce a LCC must be producing 20 ?
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Yes some guys get screwed over by the system no doubt about it including a good friend of mine, but a lot fail because they weren’t prepared. Sitting in the RHS for 10 years is no guarantee you’ll breeze through the course. You have to actually do something.
End of story.......
End of story.......
That may well be the case for some candidates, however, from my personal experience, I came prepared, and those specific checkers didn't seem to be of bother; in fact, I found them wanting to impart further knowledge. It's all about attitude. Put in the work, never miss the opportunity to keep quiet when you want to say something that may be misconstrued as argumentative and stay focused on your goal.
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That may well be the case for some candidates, however, from my personal experience, I came prepared, and those specific checkers didn't seem to be of bother; in fact, I found them wanting to impart further knowledge. It's all about attitude. Put in the work, never miss the opportunity to keep quiet when you want to say something that may be misconstrued as argumentative and stay focused on your goal.
Great you never had an experience like this, but that doesn't mean it's not a reality.
In those halcyon days when I was TRAINING students on the Command course we did about 20 sectors together. I would never write up silly, one off errors that candidates inevitably made - they would be discussed over a beer later. All my guys passed.
ie It behoves the TRAINERS to not be writing damning statements about the student. Attitude should be :-
Right, sunshine - you've passed the course so let's see what I can tell you that will be of help in the early days whilst you develop your own style of Command.
Questions about how the bloody standby electrics work are just annoying and a decent checker should say "I'll ask you something obscure and you can do the same back". That would stop them pretty fast. "How do you carry out overwing refuelling?" - " No idea mate - never had to do it and have never heard of anyone ever doing it down the line" next question…………...
ie It behoves the TRAINERS to not be writing damning statements about the student. Attitude should be :-
Right, sunshine - you've passed the course so let's see what I can tell you that will be of help in the early days whilst you develop your own style of Command.
Questions about how the bloody standby electrics work are just annoying and a decent checker should say "I'll ask you something obscure and you can do the same back". That would stop them pretty fast. "How do you carry out overwing refuelling?" - " No idea mate - never had to do it and have never heard of anyone ever doing it down the line" next question…………...
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Why would anyone seriously consider cx or ka at the moment ? Having to live in HK , 10 years to command and deal with this training regime all on similar pay to LCC carriers based in much much cheaper parts of Asia plus quick command ? For every 1 captain the Cathay group produce a LCC must be producing 20 ?
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In those halcyon days when I was TRAINING students on the Command course we did about 20 sectors together. I would never write up silly, one off errors that candidates inevitably made - they would be discussed over a beer later. All my guys passed.
ie It behoves the TRAINERS to not be writing damning statements about the student. Attitude should be :-
Right, sunshine - you've passed the course so let's see what I can tell you that will be of help in the early days whilst you develop your own style of Command.
Questions about how the bloody standby electrics work are just annoying and a decent checker should say "I'll ask you something obscure and you can do the same back". That would stop them pretty fast. "How do you carry out overwing refuelling?" - " No idea mate - never had to do it and have never heard of anyone ever doing it down the line" next question…………...
ie It behoves the TRAINERS to not be writing damning statements about the student. Attitude should be :-
Right, sunshine - you've passed the course so let's see what I can tell you that will be of help in the early days whilst you develop your own style of Command.
Questions about how the bloody standby electrics work are just annoying and a decent checker should say "I'll ask you something obscure and you can do the same back". That would stop them pretty fast. "How do you carry out overwing refuelling?" - " No idea mate - never had to do it and have never heard of anyone ever doing it down the line" next question…………...
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You harking back in the days of a meritocracy.. Those days are dead and Merlin will see to that; it's just to expensive. Now, trainers and checkers are about power; the more they can slam and belittle the better they feel. You know who they are - the last lot just accepted the upgrades... More Power...
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My buddy is in his 13th year, and still has over 70 FO's ahead of him. That is at least another 2-3 years at current production. Bear in mind that all promotion is now based almost exclusively on retirements/resignations, as the airline has effectively no growth. Said buddy is not concerned, he's leaving to go home with wife and children. BA obtains another great guy at the expense of CX's mindless management follies.
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Ya gotta hand it to them. CNs get entrenched with their golden handcuffs and extend on inferior contracts while FOs don’t get BPP when that happens. So things stagnate but with a top heavy force who works cheap and new guys who work cheap.
If you have a failure rate above 5 to 10 percent your screening assessment system sucks. And it’s not too hard to switch seats after doing the task for a few years; at least if you’re paying attention and taking the responsibility you should be taking.
To the OP it’s pretty easy. They are the ones working in the left seat of a major US carrier and leading a generally happy life in a happy place.
If you have a failure rate above 5 to 10 percent your screening assessment system sucks. And it’s not too hard to switch seats after doing the task for a few years; at least if you’re paying attention and taking the responsibility you should be taking.
To the OP it’s pretty easy. They are the ones working in the left seat of a major US carrier and leading a generally happy life in a happy place.
I'm astounded!
the whole place is going to hell in a hand basket , major diplomatic incidents and people on here are worried about seniority............. and pass marks in a CX training system
the whole place is going to hell in a hand basket , major diplomatic incidents and people on here are worried about seniority............. and pass marks in a CX training system
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STP
Well said Steve. Correct. Toxic atmosphere and fearful political events do not stop comments of interest to professional pilots on a public forum. I too "lurk" around Fragrant harbour for interest in many former colleagues , sometimes for my larf of the day but mostly out of interest in airline events given a platform for discussion. That is why, even under the current climate, I offer to Arfur Dent ; Where the hell were TRAINERS like you when I needed...................er, ONE............! Be sure your Studes will have been grateful for value Training as opposed to valueless Trapping. CX always prided itself as a Technical airline but they lost focus and allowed the Bully-boy Trappers to prevail. 60 sectors Command Course ? That is like the old RN "Perishers" course for Submarine Command. Sudden death at any time and certainly, no "training".
Sorry to bring back painful memories but remember the ASL DEC deal ? That too was not really a DEC. It was entrance ,directly to the 60 sectors Command course starting with CX Technical boot-camp before getting anywhere close to anything resembling and aircraft. Two of my mates, FO's in my Company went for the FO deal. Also a nightmare. They resisted my advice not to. Partly because it was very political but I doubted that they would survive even RHS "training", They ignored me. Went. Within a month or so, were reduced to mumbling wrecks trying to figure out how the ASI max speed bar works (amongst other nice to know but quite needless trivia). Dopy questions like that on every sector ?
Soon, discussion like this will be irrelevant to the CX demise but still of value in terms of a general discussion.
Oh, and DROPKNEE : Well done indeed. Don't even look over your shoulder.
Sorry to bring back painful memories but remember the ASL DEC deal ? That too was not really a DEC. It was entrance ,directly to the 60 sectors Command course starting with CX Technical boot-camp before getting anywhere close to anything resembling and aircraft. Two of my mates, FO's in my Company went for the FO deal. Also a nightmare. They resisted my advice not to. Partly because it was very political but I doubted that they would survive even RHS "training", They ignored me. Went. Within a month or so, were reduced to mumbling wrecks trying to figure out how the ASI max speed bar works (amongst other nice to know but quite needless trivia). Dopy questions like that on every sector ?
Soon, discussion like this will be irrelevant to the CX demise but still of value in terms of a general discussion.
Oh, and DROPKNEE : Well done indeed. Don't even look over your shoulder.
