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COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 11th Jul 2019, 12:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post


An issue thatís just been recently raised with the immigration department.
Looks like management playing fast and loose with work visas may bite them yet again. Forcing a Hong Kong local to retire while being eligible to continue work (with his same aged colleagues actually continuing to work) while the company informs the immigration department that there are no suitable residents in Hong Kong to perform the job.

Watch this space.

Sadly incorrect as anyone doing law 101 will tell you. No one is being forced to retire, they are just contracted to employment with Cathay until Age 55. You can be on contract for any length of time, and this one finishes at age 55. You can go fly for anyone else in Hong Kong after your contract with CX ends, you arenít forced into retirement.

Not sure why guys are hanging onto this ridiculous notion.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 13:03
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 60
The guy that so vociferously voiced his concerns for the membership over the so called TA16 hand grenade and effectively killed any chance of it passing has crossed the line and gone into training. Not so altruistic now apparently...
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 14:37
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post

Sadly incorrect as anyone doing law 101 will tell you. No one is being forced to retire, they are just contracted to employment with Cathay until Age 55. You can be on contract for any length of time, and this one finishes at age 55. You can go fly for anyone else in Hong Kong after your contract with CX ends, you aren’t forced into retirement.

Not sure why guys are hanging onto this ridiculous notion.
“Anyone else” or CX.

My little birdie tells me that the immigration department is cracking down on issuing work visas when qualified permanent residents who wish to do the job are available.
Yep, no one is being forced to retire, just the company may be forced to retain or rehire.

Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 11th Jul 2019 at 15:18.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 15:29
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post


ďAnyone elseĒ or CX.

My little birdie tells me that the immigration department is cracking down on issuing work visas when qualified permanent residents who wish to do the job are available.
Yep, no one is being forced to retire, just the company may be forced to retain or rehire.
Complete bs sorry to say, if you think that this is the best approach to forcing the company to give guys who elected to stay on RA55 the opportunity to go to 65 on COS08 when COS08 doesn't exist anymore. Company won't be forced to do anything, you're dreaming. But cling to it if you need to.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 15:35
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 213
Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post


ďAnyone elseĒ or CX.

My little birdie tells me that the immigration department is cracking down on issuing work visas when qualified permanent residents who wish to do the job are available.
So your basically saying: the union is useless, and all the pilots will sell themselves and others out for a few$$$. But somehow market and regulatory forces will keep giving the pilots little wins here and there, that they will celebrate this like the victory they should have had if everyone was United. It's kinda sad really. But hey, whatever floats your boat!
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 21:06
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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Sam Ting Wong

Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
One reason for declining salaries could be voting down pay increases.
Big fat pay increase won't help when you get #extradited to the #motherland for not calling in on RT (BOEING) or deviating around a cell without permission !

#CXit
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 23:01
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
I am not holding you back.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 23:40
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 395
Forgive me if Iím wrong but werenít ALL pilots offered age 65 retirement years ago? The catch was that A scalers had to accept B scale terms post 55 to continue the extra 10 years. Pretty much all the older captains were on top tier pay scales so it wasnít that much of a drop. Now the ĎIíll never signí guys ..most of whom were Ďforcedí to retire at 55 up until now...are being offered new crap terms to continue to 65!! Talk about kicking an own goal. The company thinks they canít really go anywhere at that age so theyíre sticking the boot in. Inertia is a great thing for employers.
i guess we really showed Ďem again!!


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Old 12th Jul 2019, 00:31
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Well Sam, you don't vote for a pay increase when it's wrapped around a virtual hand grenade.
also sadly bs. Without that clause the company can still go to town on you if thereís even a hint of the bottom line affected by ďindustrial actionĒ Youíre in Hong Kong, cupcake. Maybe believe the general consensus of the legal fraternity in Hong Kong and not a CX pilot giving his take on the law. If youíre too lazy/dumb/confused just Google recent court cases involving the topic in Hong Kong, the employee lost.
Ironic that the (recently back in the GC) person who ranted about voting down the payrise is now ranting about the lack of payrise.

All water under the bridge, 4 years of 6% payrise but whoís counting.

Last edited by Pickuptruck; 12th Jul 2019 at 00:57.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 06:29
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 339
Blunderbus;
A quick look at aviation websites lists literally 30-50 positions available for captains with a starting age of 58 or younger . Some of them are paying really good salaries so at this time you are not stuck
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 10:26
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
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It’s NOT all about the pay.......some of us don’t wish to be away from home for 2 or 3 weeks at a time......

it ain’t that simple unfortunately.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 00:19
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by ACMS View Post
Itís NOT all about the pay.......some of us donít wish to be away from home for 2 or 3 weeks at a time......

it ainít that simple unfortunately.
actually it is. 15 days on 15 days off for pretty average pay. Or 20 on 10 off for better or max cash is 48 on 12off. The problem is CX pilots want full time pay for minimal work. If none of those options suit then maybe doing something else at 55 is the best option. Surely guys looked at this before they elected to leave at 55?
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 01:27
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post

The problem is CX pilots want full time pay for minimal work.
I think this is wholly incorrect; CX pilots don't mind putting in the work for adequate compensation.

Problem is CX wants to be able to put people on a string for POTENTIAL work -- 'on call' or 'standby' or whatever you want to call it -- and not pay for it. And also be able to switch around trips (without penalty) without any input from the operating pilot. As to minimize THEIR costs with no guarantee, compensation, or recourse by the crew it affects.

This has served no one well. The company continues to collapse their own rosters and has no idea how to flow out or long term allocation of resources for maximum productivity at minimum cost. You have an hours driven process; not a days driven process. It's not a standard office job. Ideally the company pays for 900 hours per year (within FTL and contractural constraints). The major problem is there is no penalty for holding someone on a string (used or not) and for completely collapsing what should be a stable, planned, 'owned' roster. It's a one way street. In time, this breaks the assets you need to operate the machinery. And makes other leave for greener pastures.

The net result is wild swings into overtime, unfit crew, increased costs, and decreased productivity.

It's an old adage that some of the most expensive things are 'free' and that by being a cheap bastage you often wind up paying a great deal more than you otherwise would need to.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 01:52
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
I think this is wholly incorrect; CX pilots don't mind putting in the work for adequate compensation.

Problem is CX wants to be able to put people on a string for POTENTIAL work -- 'on call' or 'standby' or whatever you want to call it -- and not pay for it. And also be able to switch around trips (without penalty) without any input from the operating pilot. As to minimize THEIR costs with no guarantee, compensation, or recourse by the crew it affects.

This has served no one well. The company continues to collapse their own rosters and has no idea how to flow out or long term allocation of resources for maximum productivity at minimum cost. You have an hours driven process; not a days driven process. It's not a standard office job. Ideally the company pays for 900 hours per year (within FTL and contractural constraints). The major problem is there is no penalty for holding someone on a string (used or not) and for completely collapsing what should be a stable, planned, 'owned' roster. It's a one way street. In time, this breaks the assets you need to operate the machinery. And makes other leave for greener pastures.

The net result is wild swings into overtime, unfit crew, increased costs, and decreased productivity.

It's an old adage that some of the most expensive things are 'free' and that by being a cheap bastage you often wind up paying a great deal more than you otherwise would need to.
I was referring to the guys on RA55 not happy with whatís out there for contract jobs. But if CX is such rubbish as youíre alluding to and so is everything else then maybe thereís nowhere in aviation in 2019 that some guys would be happy.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 01:58
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post

I was referring to the guys on RA55 not happy with whatís out there for contract jobs. But if CX is such rubbish as youíre alluding to and so is everything else then maybe thereís nowhere in aviation in 2019 that some guys would be happy.
i know many colleagues who have moved on and are in aviation in 2019. Without exception they ARE happy and none have regretted the decision.
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 02:07
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post


i know many colleagues who have moved on and are in aviation in 2019. Without exception they ARE happy and none have regretted the decision.
I agree. I donít know a single pilot who has left CX that regrets it. Is this just confirmation bias or reality? Thereís no way to know for sure. My sense is that itís a bit of both. Money isnít everything; and once a pilot fully embraces the lifestyle options available at many other airlines, that fact becomes tangible.
cxorcist is online now  
Old 13th Jul 2019, 03:09
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by ACMS View Post
Itís NOT all about the pay.......some of us donít wish to be away from home for 2 or 3 weeks at a time......

it ainít that simple unfortunately.
obvious thing to do is retire then and be at home all the time
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 05:23
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post


I agree. I donít know a single pilot who has left CX that regrets it. Is this just confirmation bias or reality? Thereís no way to know for sure. My sense is that itís a bit of both. Money isnít everything; and once a pilot fully embraces the lifestyle options available at many other airlines, that fact becomes tangible.
If money isn't everything to you I don't know what is. You are complaining about this place now for how long? 5 or 10 years?
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Old 13th Jul 2019, 07:17
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,684
Freehills........Sure no worries, you want to payout my mortgage for me?

Not all of us are multi millionaires mate from HK property.

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Old 13th Jul 2019, 07:20
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post

actually it is. 15 days on 15 days off for pretty average pay. Or 20 on 10 off for better or max cash is 48 on 12off. The problem is CX pilots want full time pay for minimal work. If none of those options suit then maybe doing something else at 55 is the best option. Surely guys looked at this before they elected to leave at 55?

last time I got my calculator out 15 days was 2 weeks.

so, some of us don’t want or can’t be away from HOME for that long....for shit money.

ok.
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