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COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 12th Jun 2019, 23:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by herewego75 View Post
HAHAHA are you serious? Express concerns to the AOA? Now that's the biggest joke I have heard today. What have they done for us - name one good thing?
Yes just give up buddy, why donít you just eat a bullet while youíre at it, itís no use anyway, is it?
grow a pair, sally
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 09:18
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Arfur, there you have it, right there. join the "few" and get a good deal when it suits but describe current Management a "bunch of c...s" when it doesn't. That's why we, "commercial" pilots go for hire & reward. Concerned about what's painted on the side of an aeroplane has no longer any worth in the industry.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 11:38
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,109
Don't think I made my point very well Landflap. "The few" (who became "Everyone") were those after about 2008/9 who simply stayed on the pax Fleet until 65 on their Bases etc - that was an exceptional deal which didn't apply to me. I had to give up my base and convert to the Classic. COS 99ers were offered a chance to join COS08 but they refused and kept COS 99 with the understanding that they would retire at 55. It is typical Cathay that they can now have their cake and eat it at the expense of others. I don't think my actions disadvantaged anyone as RA65 was becoming the industry standard anyway. Don't shoot the messenger!
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 15:18
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by Firefly47 View Post
How does any captain taking COS18 to stay past 55 sleep at night? Probably the same guys joining training but claimed they were "forced"
Controlled rest!
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 09:48
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Arfur, thanks for the courtesy of a clarification. I see your point. That has been my downfall as I see all sides of an argument and was a Management Guy for a long time . Glad to get back to line flying & look after myself quite selfishly & ruthlessly. Worked but I have no mates.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 20:21
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 340
Remember guys and gals, increasing the CX retirement age to 65 will REDUCE time to command!!!

box
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 09:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 362
Yeah , and they are also convinced that by reducing EPR you INCREASE the RTOW. Thanks for my customary larf of they day Boxey !
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 11:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by boxjockey View Post
Remember guys and gals, increasing the CX retirement age to 65 will REDUCE time to command!!!

box
Think of it this way, when you do finally get that command you can stay until you are 65 too. Sadly, since the contract is now so poor, you will probably have to anyway!
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 14:00
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 549
Capable

Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
As long as you are capable and wish to would seem reasonable to me.
Exactly the same criteria management applies to find candidates for Check/Trainer positions.. Note, nothing to do with merit !
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 20:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Not in JFK
Posts: 45
Retirement age

I find it strange that the retirement age is even in the contract. How was this negotiated? I think a person should be allowed to fly as long as the regulations, not some odd clause in a contract, allow. I canít imagine a contract for any profession in the US having a mandatory retirement age. Thatís for the regulators.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 01:52
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15
There is the rub letís fly 75. CX is based in HKG. These are HKG contracts governed by HKG law. It is NOT the US,nor AUS, nor Europe. It is pointless comparing the law from those jurisdictions.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 04:18
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Not in JFK
Posts: 45
Well I flew or CX for over 10 years. I always thought the age clause was inane. If I had stayed and the age limit had been raised I would have zero problem continuing to that new age.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 08:08
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 22
sure fly til 75.

You just canít fly into airspace mandated by other jurisdictions to limit pilot retirement age to 65

lotsa luck with that
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 13:04
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 130
What you have to realize is the company will use just about any issue ó regulators raising the RA or max hours, economic conditions in a third world nation, wannabees learning to fly, a flood in Johnstown, you name it

To attempt to develop a new contract of lower terms and conditions for a segment of the pilot force. And then play this segment against others developing a series of declining contracts. Itís been their MO for years.

The market could not be better for pilot opportunities than it is now. Yet for some reason our pilot force whiningly takes whatever the company throws at them.

For a time period CC and TB was working and they are parking jets. But POS 18 end runs CC and the new policy gives scabs cover to themselves to end run the TB. After this it becomes a matter of time of whether the bathtub can be filled fast enough.

So the writing was on the wall with the escalation to POS 18 ó either strike or accept your lot. Apparently the workforce is composed of too many scabs and pussies to do much about their lot other than whine so there ya have it.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 08:24
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Anyone doing a fleet forum at the moment will hear how theyíre sorting the RA55 issue. First guys coming up to 55 in 2021, most want to extend but only a minority are required and will be selected. So, guess what?

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Old 11th Jul 2019, 09:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,680
Most want to extend?

oh.....

What happened 10 years back?
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 09:26
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 709
Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
What you have to realize is the company will use just about any issue ó regulators raising the RA or max hours, economic conditions in a third world nation, wannabees learning to fly, a flood in Johnstown, you name it

To attempt to develop a new contract of lower terms and conditions for a segment of the pilot force. And then play this segment against others developing a series of declining contracts. Itís been their MO for years.

The market could not be better for pilot opportunities than it is now. Yet for some reason our pilot force whiningly takes whatever the company throws at them.

For a time period CC and TB was working and they are parking jets. But POS 18 end runs CC and the new policy gives scabs cover to themselves to end run the TB. After this it becomes a matter of time of whether the bathtub can be filled fast enough.

So the writing was on the wall with the escalation to POS 18 ó either strike or accept your lot. Apparently the workforce is composed of too many scabs and pussies to do much about their lot other than whine so there ya have it.
It is one of the great mysteries of aviation: why, when nearly everywhere in the world the pay and conditions of pilots is improving, here at CX they are only on a downwards trajectory? It's quite curious. An analysis of the past 25 years clearly shows that the underlying reason is the "balkanization" of our pilot groups. Different nationalities, different basings, different contracts...all resulting in a situation that creates the perfect brew for our management to exploit. Somehow, we have ended up with an airline where at any given time, a few people (at the moment, AOA TB breakers who are volunteering) can undermine the efforts and commitment of the great majority, and cause each and every affected individual to suffer further loss in their career prospects (to each of you joining training, know you are actually lining your own pockets with the fair expectations of increased pay and benefits of your colleagues, that you have now effectively diverted into your own bank accounts. Cretins). There really is no hope for a prosperous or stable career at CX. Management get parachuted in for a few years (AM as en example) and their sole aim is to reduce the terms of your contract further. They are happy with a hundred nationalities, many of whom will quietly work for much less than you. You and your families will always be subject to arbitrary contract surprises, withholding of 13th month, closure of bases and on and on. There will never be a stable platform at CX to base a career on, or the hopes of your families. Get out while you still can.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 09:42
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
Anyone doing a fleet forum at the moment will hear how theyíre sorting the RA55 issue. First guys coming up to 55 in 2021, most want to extend but only a minority are required and will be selected. So, guess what?

An issue thatís just been recently raised with the immigration department.
Looks like management playing fast and loose with work visas may bite them yet again. Forcing a Hong Kong local to retire while being eligible to continue work (with his same aged colleagues actually continuing to work) while the company informs the immigration department that there are no suitable residents in Hong Kong to perform the job.

Watch this space.

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Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:56
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
One reason for declining salaries could be voting down pay increases.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:16
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
Well Sam, you don't vote for a pay increase when it's wrapped around a virtual hand grenade.
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