Current retirement figures.
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I would very much like to see the CX aircraft utilization numbers. Remember, a decade or so ago, when the Management would brag about the very high average daily utilization of the 747-400 passenger and freighter fleets. Now, you never hear a thing about that. I wonder why that is???
I'd suggest profitability comes before "growth" - looking around the Airline scene right now the "growth" airlines seem to be the ones going bust
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They certainly mismanaged the fuel hedges. There’s no arguing that. Paying more for fuel than ALL your competitors certainly doesn’t help profitability.
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No, you are absolutely correct. Further, if they hadn't wasted all those billions, they could have improved what is now a "third-world" pay and benefit package, thereby retaining and attracting the pilots they need. Instead, they have now managed to create a situation where they have 3000+ employees actively working against the company's best interests, most of whom are looking for a new employer. Epic own goal. Well done CX management.
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That is the problem for anyone pretending (self-delusion) that CX can provide a career: CX can hire pilots from ANYWHERE, including people who are willing to work for FAR less than you could ever accept. The fact is, CX management have already decided to morph the airline into the sanctuary for the worlds refugee pilots, knowing they will always work for less, and be more willing to accept ongoing degradation's to their COS. That is why someone who is from a first world country must accept it's over and make their way home to a proper employer, one which can't hire from outside their own borders. CX can (and will) always find someone who will work for less than you.
I think Mole has it right - and it's not just CX.
The airline business is expanding rapidly in what we laughingly used to call the "third World" - that's where the expansion in jobs will be (just look at the Airbus & Boeing order books). These will be local airlines and they will want their terms and conditions to reflect local values and costs. There will be a big push to replace expat pilots with locals on local terms. And for local pilots those terms and that job will still be very very attractive compared to other jobs on offer.
CX has always been a bit of an anomaly, or rather a colonial era hold-over, with expensive expat crews in what is now a very different place. After 20 years it's not surprising the screws are being tightened - TBH I'm surprised it took so long.
If you work there you either accept that you still (currently) have a damn good package but it will be constantly eroded or you bail out and try and find a similar package elsewhere - tho' I suspect many will find that with the rise of the LCO's in the western world those packages are harder and harder to find.
You can sit and moan about contracts, and the way things were , and what you thought you were getting into 10+ years ago or you can shape up or ship out. It's a choice many people face in all sorts of jobs these days - especially in the ex-pat communities.
The airline business is expanding rapidly in what we laughingly used to call the "third World" - that's where the expansion in jobs will be (just look at the Airbus & Boeing order books). These will be local airlines and they will want their terms and conditions to reflect local values and costs. There will be a big push to replace expat pilots with locals on local terms. And for local pilots those terms and that job will still be very very attractive compared to other jobs on offer.
CX has always been a bit of an anomaly, or rather a colonial era hold-over, with expensive expat crews in what is now a very different place. After 20 years it's not surprising the screws are being tightened - TBH I'm surprised it took so long.
If you work there you either accept that you still (currently) have a damn good package but it will be constantly eroded or you bail out and try and find a similar package elsewhere - tho' I suspect many will find that with the rise of the LCO's in the western world those packages are harder and harder to find.
You can sit and moan about contracts, and the way things were , and what you thought you were getting into 10+ years ago or you can shape up or ship out. It's a choice many people face in all sorts of jobs these days - especially in the ex-pat communities.
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I think Mole has it right - and it's not just CX.
The airline business is expanding rapidly in what we laughingly used to call the "third World" - that's where the expansion in jobs will be (just look at the Airbus & Boeing order books). These will be local airlines and they will want their terms and conditions to reflect local values and costs. There will be a big push to replace expat pilots with locals on local terms. And for local pilots those terms and that job will still be very very attractive compared to other jobs on offer.
CX has always been a bit of an anomaly, or rather a colonial era hold-over, with expensive expat crews in what is now a very different place. After 20 years it's not surprising the screws are being tightened - TBH I'm surprised it took so long.
If you work there you either accept that you still (currently) have a damn good package but it will be constantly eroded or you bail out and try and find a similar package elsewhere - tho' I suspect many will find that with the rise of the LCO's in the western world those packages are harder and harder to find.
You can sit and moan about contracts, and the way things were , and what you thought you were getting into 10+ years ago or you can shape up or ship out. It's a choice many people face in all sorts of jobs these days - especially in the ex-pat communities.
The airline business is expanding rapidly in what we laughingly used to call the "third World" - that's where the expansion in jobs will be (just look at the Airbus & Boeing order books). These will be local airlines and they will want their terms and conditions to reflect local values and costs. There will be a big push to replace expat pilots with locals on local terms. And for local pilots those terms and that job will still be very very attractive compared to other jobs on offer.
CX has always been a bit of an anomaly, or rather a colonial era hold-over, with expensive expat crews in what is now a very different place. After 20 years it's not surprising the screws are being tightened - TBH I'm surprised it took so long.
If you work there you either accept that you still (currently) have a damn good package but it will be constantly eroded or you bail out and try and find a similar package elsewhere - tho' I suspect many will find that with the rise of the LCO's in the western world those packages are harder and harder to find.
You can sit and moan about contracts, and the way things were , and what you thought you were getting into 10+ years ago or you can shape up or ship out. It's a choice many people face in all sorts of jobs these days - especially in the ex-pat communities.
CXorcist makes some very good points - my only issue is that I can't think of a single Airline CEO or Board that would see good income figures as a reason to pay their staff more than they absolutely have to.
The old days of reputation, style, image are passing in all but a few, very upmarket industries (such as watches and handbags and maybe hotels)
Personally I regret this deeply - the rise of modern management, high finance and MBA's has seen a terrible cost in jobs, stability, and respect for both workers and customers IMHO
Unfortunately that's the modern world, across the board , and we have no choice (short of winning the Lottery) but to work within a system which is quite unpleasant I'm afraid.........
The old days of reputation, style, image are passing in all but a few, very upmarket industries (such as watches and handbags and maybe hotels)
Personally I regret this deeply - the rise of modern management, high finance and MBA's has seen a terrible cost in jobs, stability, and respect for both workers and customers IMHO
Unfortunately that's the modern world, across the board , and we have no choice (short of winning the Lottery) but to work within a system which is quite unpleasant I'm afraid.........
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HKA’s route map and frequencies outside of Asia are minuscule compared to CX. Also, the freight hauling capabilities of HKA are insignificant relative to CX. Lastly, one world and other code share agreements are far lesser at HKA. The cabin product is probably mox nix at this point except first class on some of CX’s main longhaul routes.
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CXorcist makes some very good points - my only issue is that I can't think of a single Airline CEO or Board that would see good income figures as a reason to pay their staff more than they absolutely have to.
The old days of reputation, style, image are passing in all but a few, very upmarket industries (such as watches and handbags and maybe hotels)
Personally I regret this deeply - the rise of modern management, high finance and MBA's has seen a terrible cost in jobs, stability, and respect for both workers and customers IMHO
Unfortunately that's the modern world, across the board , and we have no choice (short of winning the Lottery) but to work within a system which is quite unpleasant I'm afraid.........
The old days of reputation, style, image are passing in all but a few, very upmarket industries (such as watches and handbags and maybe hotels)
Personally I regret this deeply - the rise of modern management, high finance and MBA's has seen a terrible cost in jobs, stability, and respect for both workers and customers IMHO
Unfortunately that's the modern world, across the board , and we have no choice (short of winning the Lottery) but to work within a system which is quite unpleasant I'm afraid.........
There are certainly great paying jobs out there -- particularly with US majors. If pay is what you're looking for. So there are great economic opportunities. AND you have to realize that pay is a relative thing--absolute values are completely meaningless because they have to be taken in context to where one lives. Even within a country, there is a HUGE cost of living difference (cost for a certain desired standard of living). What may take 50,000 units in one place can take in excess of 400,000 in another location--even in the same country. Hong Kong is cost of living in most nations' higher priced venues on steroids.
There is ALSO a great deal more to life than just pay.....much much more.
A person spends a great deal of his or her time working. I can think of few things worse than being miserable under job conditions one hates. So if you can't enjoy what you're doing--or somehow make it in to something you DO like doing--I think you're pissing away your life. And will greatly regret the decision not to move on to something you DO enjoy.
You have to remember the person who makes your future is YOU. One can sit and whine about how things suck, or one can take actions to live a life of fulfillment one enjoys.
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I’ll add to Slasher’s comments that CX has a functioning and viable mechanism to defray the very high cost of living in Hong Kong, overseas bases. Sadly, the company views these as recruitment and retention tools (carrots) more than cost reduction. The pilots on bases receive no expat allowances because the cost of living is generally much lower on bases than in HK. Nevertheless, CX hates bases because they have to comply with local labour laws. They’d rather put downward pressure on wages and work rules in Hong Kong where the laws don’t protect employees particularly well. It’s a sad state of affairs which is causal to a very demoralized and angry pilot group at CX.
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I’ll add to Slasher’s comments that CX has a functioning and viable mechanism to defray the very high cost of living in Hong Kong, overseas bases. Sadly, the company views these as recruitment and retention tools (carrots) more than cost reduction. The pilots on bases receive no expat allowances because the cost of living is generally much lower on bases than in HK. Nevertheless, CX hates bases because they have to comply with local labour laws. They’d rather put downward pressure on wages and work rules in Hong Kong where the laws don’t protect employees particularly well. It’s a sad state of affairs which is causal to a very demoralized and angry pilot group at CX.
more than that for YVR. There’s no meaningful openings. And there won’t be more that make a dent in the desire for most to be out of HKG. For 95% of Pilot’s that want a base, this current opening was no more than a demoralizing awareness that most will NEVER be on a base.
Time to Flee.
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How do you know how many applied for each base slot, Plainpilot?
And one only has to look at the pent-up demand that is backlogged with the current base openings and do some rough calculations to see that with the current prospectus’s for openings, it’ll still be YEARS before anyone but the most senior get a base. Over 100 requests for 5 openings in LAX,
more than that for YVR. There’s no meaningful openings. And there won’t be more that make a dent in the desire for most to be out of HKG. For 95% of Pilot’s that want a base, this current opening was no more than a demoralizing awareness that most will NEVER be on a base.
Time to Flee.
And one only has to look at the pent-up demand that is backlogged with the current base openings and do some rough calculations to see that with the current prospectus’s for openings, it’ll still be YEARS before anyone but the most senior get a base. Over 100 requests for 5 openings in LAX,
more than that for YVR. There’s no meaningful openings. And there won’t be more that make a dent in the desire for most to be out of HKG. For 95% of Pilot’s that want a base, this current opening was no more than a demoralizing awareness that most will NEVER be on a base.
Time to Flee.
Last edited by Amber Vibes; 14th Apr 2019 at 18:07.
Amber Vibes dont be so quick to attack. It is quite simple. Just look at your position on the permanent basing page on crew direct..........
So many guys in CX shoot first and ask questions later. No wonder we are our own worst enemy
So many guys in CX shoot first and ask questions later. No wonder we are our own worst enemy
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There is no agenda in my post other than to obtain information. No one is shooting, no one is attacking. I was genuinely curious where the figures came from --- that is all.
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Thanks and likewise, Plainpilot.
