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Training ban broken

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Training ban broken

Old 31st Mar 2019, 08:38
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Publish their names and let the pilot community 'deal' with them. Arrive at an outport and make sure they are not invited out. In the flight deck stick to the checklist and don't engage in chat. There are so many things individual pilots can do to make it very clear these defacto SCABS are outed.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 08:53
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 128
Absolutely!!
Also consider, how do you draft someone into training who doesn't want to do it? What quality of training will that provide? Basically, it would be just multi-engine, single pilot IFR. Not much different to what we do some of the time now with the 'talent' that has been coming through.
BalusKaptan is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 10:19
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by BalusKaptan View Post
Absolutely!!
Also consider, how do you draft someone into training who doesn't want to do it? What quality of training will that provide? Basically, it would be just multi-engine, single pilot IFR. Not much different to what we do some of the time now with the 'talent' that has been coming through.
Of course there is always the "option" to keep writing in the training files "unsatisfactory progress". That would clog the system in a matter of hours.
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 10:45
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: I go, therefore I am there!
Posts: 182
TPMS entry:

"Sectors need to be reflown due to the student being unable to absorb inefficient instructional input"


arse is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 13:16
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by arse View Post
TPMS entry:

"Sectors need to be reflown due to the student being unable to absorb inefficient instructional input"
S
"Sectors require repeating. Instructor NFI" ( not f***ing interested )
unitedabx is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 13:16
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
"Instructor couldn't care less "
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 13:32
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cloudcuckooland
Posts: 145
So it could be like 1996 when AOA members were training direct entry ASL captains......
1200firm is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 15:01
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,917
Originally Posted by 1200firm View Post
So it could be like 1996 when AOA members were training direct entry ASL captains......
Isn’t it like that already? ASL contract looks awesome compared to today’s new joiners, in fact far better, as were the trainees.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 16:22
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 51
What's all the hubbub? The Brits have used press gangs before. That's how they manned the Royal Navy, forced enlistment. It worked back then...why not now?

Vtwin is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 18:00
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: england
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
What's all the hubbub? The Brits have used press gangs before. That's how they manned the Royal Navy, forced enlistment. It worked back then...why not now?

A brilliant, incisive and witty analogy Vtwin. I could be wrong but my guess is you're American.
cabbages is online now  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 19:02
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 165
Seems like the standard Modus Operandi around here.

Except there's a whole bunch more ways to jump ship these days. Or camp out under the poop deck.

So while it may kinda work, it probably won't kinda work very well.

And if you look at where the Brits were then and where they are now might not work out very well in the long run either.

Arrrrgh and Alas me mateys. Ship's being overrun with scabs and the skipper'n the crows' nest drunk'n the rum again.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2019, 21:05
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
Posts: 15
Is it true that there is such a thing as a ‘change of instructor request’?
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 01:12
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by petrichor View Post


Not really cunning..more like a predictable response to a predictable and failed strategy by the union. Almost everyone saw this coming and yet we persevered, as usual we have only ourselves to blame.
That makes a lot a sense. So the TB is a failed strategy but it required a response. Let me guess, you are involved in writing some of our manuals?

If it requires a response, that is the opposite of a failed strategy. It was and continues to be a a very good strategy that has brought this whole airline to its knees and recycled many a useless manager. Maybe you are next? Or maybe you are one of the muppets who will try to use this NTC as an excuse?

Let me save you the suspense and spoil the ending. You will be looked at as a scab and it will follow you the rest of your miserable career here.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 03:31
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by cabbages View Post
A brilliant, incisive and witty analogy Vtwin. I could be wrong but my guess is you're American.
Yes, and proudly. We pulled the same stunts too back in the day on the Left Coast. Called it being Shanghaied. Easy on the compliments, I did choose to work at CX with the rest of us after-all. Even worse, I stick around...

Last edited by Vtwin; 1st Apr 2019 at 03:43.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 03:57
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
CAD have NOT signed off on this. Appointment to TC is an internal company matter. Upgrade to STC and BTC does require CAD approvals.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 14:16
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 554
It seems to me the company is a bit schizo lately, but it all makes sense now.
First they give hkpa increase, great.. But mostly for the young ones... The housing for the old ones is less..
Then they force people into training, good for the young ones (faster upgrade times, forgetting about undermining the training ban's effectiveness), bad for the old ones (no control over your own career, unable to leave without probably a very good explanation)
It is now blatantly obvious that our company now only acts to appease the young pilots, as they are the ones leaving and have less to lose by leaving, while they don't care so much anymore for the people who already put all that time in...(sunk cost fallacy, anyone?)

So, if you are a young pilot, and you have options, take note of how the company treats the more senior pilots, this will be you...
Don't be fooled by how things appear to be improving for you now, but instead look at how it will look for you down the line, when you have committed to the airline have a command and a high seniority number and it does not make much sense to leave anymore.

Oasis is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2019, 14:43
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Rosterabuseland
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Sqwak7700 View Post


That makes a lot a sense. So the TB is a failed strategy but it required a response. Let me guess, you are involved in writing some of our manuals?

If it requires a response, that is the opposite of a failed strategy. It was and continues to be a a very good strategy that has brought this whole airline to its knees and recycled many a useless manager. Maybe you are next? Or maybe you are one of the muppets who will try to use this NTC as an excuse?

Let me save you the suspense and spoil the ending. You will be looked at as a scab and it will follow you the rest of your miserable career here.
Wrong sqwak.
sqwak - now that's an appropriate pseudonym for you.... "nonsensical blabbering"...or did you misspell squawk? Either of which suggests you are at the lower end of the food chain, best to keep the responses factual here if you want to join the grown ups rather than going straight for the abuse.
petrichor is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2019, 14:47
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,917
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
It seems to me the company is a bit schizo lately, but it all makes sense now.
First they give hkpa increase, great.. But mostly for the young ones... The housing for the old ones is less..
Then they force people into training, good for the young ones (faster upgrade times, forgetting about undermining the training ban's effectiveness), bad for the old ones (no control over your own career, unable to leave without probably a very good explanation)
It is now blatantly obvious that our company now only acts to appease the young pilots, as they are the ones leaving and have less to lose by leaving, while they don't care so much anymore for the people who already put all that time in...(sunk cost fallacy, anyone?)

So, if you are a young pilot, and you have options, take note of how the company treats the more senior pilots, this will be you...
Don't be fooled by how things appear to be improving for you now, but instead look at how it will look for you down the line, when you have committed to the airline have a command and a high seniority number and it does not make much sense to leave anymore.
Very astute observation. Since joining, I’ve marveled at how CX uses seniority’s privileges and hands them to junior pilots. The most obvious example is the request system on the roster which looks at everyone’s first request (in seniority order) before cycling back. So the most junior pilot on the list gets his/her first choice before the most senior get his/her second. Lack of fleet transfer is another area where senior pilots get pigeon holed while junior pilots upgrade on preferred aircraft. The joker system is, well, a joke! Leave is not allocated at all by seniority, as is the case at most airlines. Even the CMP’s JCR will be done by “weighted fair share” with little to no regard given to seniority. Bottom line... If you want a normal seniority driven lifestyle and career, don’t come (or stay) at CX! It will never be a seniority airline.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2019, 16:39
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 165
Yup. The Company loves to play the divide and conquer on a Master's degree level--3 level chess to the long term. Playing pretty much everyone off against everyone and everywhere else (FWIW this does NOT result in a happy or particularly productive work force or work environment--but I don't think this is much of a goal--viewing people who fly airplanes much like the fuel that is used to power them). I hear people whinge and whine and then dutifully put extra time into work; to me personally reminds me of an abused spouse sprucing up dinner (maybe if I don't overcook his steak he won't hit me THIS time). The fact that someone would consider putting MORE time in by going into training is wholly baffling (not to mention you will be thought of as a scab for the rest of your life--and someday have to live with this).

So I think one is wise to look at what level of commitment (from a personal perspective) that one wants to give such a place. For sure, there ARE some decent people here (who are worth knowing and as friends and nice to spend time with and see) but on the macro level you're fodder for the boiler.

The IMPORTANT thing to realize if you're on the bottom rungs is that the pot o' stuff targeted down the road for cuts ('screw those greedy A scalers') is the pot o' stuff you aren't going to get downline. You're cutting YOUR own throat if you buy into the paradigm. And to realize there's the same target opportunity BEHIND you in new hires that the company will attempt to persuade to target YOU. One who is considering anything related to POS 18 from a refugee country might want to consider how this spiral has evolved and ask himself or herself do I really want to poke my nose into this thing. I can understand a few folks riding it out before pulling the pin; hard to fathom how anyone can look at any length of years in being in such an environment. It's kinda funny (to me) when some folks get down into the weeds with upgrades, etc. when the dike is coming apart from around the finger. Yup--upgrade to skipper a bit down the road, work harder, have a worse roster, put in more time, worry about life, and make less (under worse conditions) than a present day senior FO who's currently finishing up his days here.

I think we've seen in the fuel hedging debacle (which IMHO was simply a scam all along--witness the airline magically having enough cash to buy or leverage a new airline) the degree to which the company (IMHO) will make up stuff to push an agenda. True or not. No one knows how money moves across China or around here. If I bill myself for a house my wife and I live in I can make up any number I want to attempt to show my wife how poor I am (she's smart enough not to believe this though).
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2019, 15:39
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 38
Watching the Company and the AOA is like watching two fat people have sex. It’s unsightly, but amusing trying to figure out which one looks more stupid.Hot on the heels of the DFO's latest blunder, the AOA has played a blinder with just 486 members (20.6% of all members) successfully voting that all future votes require 67% majority to pass. In future, if 1579 vote to do something and just 779 say “no”, then it’s not going to happen. The AOA just adopted democracy by minority rule!!AOA, please just give me my levy back and I’ll leave you all to it. Cathay, just make me redundant and you can replace me with someone on POS18…. everyone’s a winner….A plague on both your houses…….
Liam Gallagher is offline  

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