Training ban broken
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At some point you stand up to the bully, even at personal cost. Many of us felt that was an acceptable course of action. There are also people who's only value is $$$. I didn't read where AP said he thought the loss of earnings was "acceptable" Samsonite. Only that he seems to feel (like the majority of voters at that time) that it was time to take a stand. Oh, btw, what about the latest vote? I suppose you think most of us once again couldn't think for ourselves. If we had voted for the worst deal ever offered, imagine how we would be feeling now, after they announce a large profit, AND purchase another airline. People like you will always want to blame others for your problems. Me, I blame CX management for nearly all the misery and loss, and not my colleagues.
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MM stood up for what? TA16 was turned down because of clause 7 which most western world contracts incorporate into their labour laws. It brought everything else into our contract and wasn't just company policy. You didn't like the deal ok so now TB show us our next card to play, I only see one and 90% of the members will never do that so be the leader your pretend to be and show us the way!!!
BTW 10 new trainers already volunteered.
BTW 10 new trainers already volunteered.
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To me; this seems more like top cover for scabs than anything else, but I do wonder if individuals might be coerced into training positions.
I’ve never heard of such a thing. My suggestion might be if this creates safety concerns it be forwarded to the CAD for investigation. In that the CAD could be placed in a fox guarding the hen house type of situation it might also be prudent to forward the concerns to the regulatory agencies of the other nations into which CX operates and request their assistance in making an unbiased investigation into the matter. As well as a determination of— given the safety and qualification concerns — whether or not the airline remains safe enough to operate within their airspace.
I’ve never heard of such a thing. My suggestion might be if this creates safety concerns it be forwarded to the CAD for investigation. In that the CAD could be placed in a fox guarding the hen house type of situation it might also be prudent to forward the concerns to the regulatory agencies of the other nations into which CX operates and request their assistance in making an unbiased investigation into the matter. As well as a determination of— given the safety and qualification concerns — whether or not the airline remains safe enough to operate within their airspace.
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At some point, the repugnant truth of what’s gone on here at CX, since Eddington graced as with his presence, then Ron Davis and Clemmow completely usurped Flight Ops, making us wholly subservient to the Personnel Department (oops, the People Department), this total emasculation (not usually but can be applied in the feminine as well) of Flight Ops, has simmered and now purcolated to a point where most of us are angry, disillusioned and resigned to our collective fate - that of being pecked to death by a succession of self serving, lying and transient DUCKS (Dutiful Underlings Conspiring Knowingly with Swire).......that knowingly smile at us, as they take the perks and bonuses, whilst knowingly screwing their own brethren.
It’s simple and it’s true, to simply hold the line as aviators with lives and families and very long memories, is better than taking a few $$ extra, from the hands of people we know simply can’t lay straight in bed.
Enough good folk know the truth and it’s being recognised slowly by the grownups, such that the culprits are finding it harder and harder to cover their tracks and paint over the cracks. Will justice prevail and wrongs be righted? That’s a pipe dream in any large corporation, yet to crawl into bed with dogs means a certain case of fleas!
Thoughts - “the ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all”. John. F. Kennedy.
- “if not us, who? - if not now, when?”. John. F. Kennedy.
- “those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable”. John. F. Kennedy.
Finally - “I would rather die a slave to principles than a slave to man”. Emiliano Zapata.
It’s simple and it’s true, to simply hold the line as aviators with lives and families and very long memories, is better than taking a few $$ extra, from the hands of people we know simply can’t lay straight in bed.
Enough good folk know the truth and it’s being recognised slowly by the grownups, such that the culprits are finding it harder and harder to cover their tracks and paint over the cracks. Will justice prevail and wrongs be righted? That’s a pipe dream in any large corporation, yet to crawl into bed with dogs means a certain case of fleas!
Thoughts - “the ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all”. John. F. Kennedy.
- “if not us, who? - if not now, when?”. John. F. Kennedy.
- “those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable”. John. F. Kennedy.
Finally - “I would rather die a slave to principles than a slave to man”. Emiliano Zapata.
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““After all, if you do not resist the apparently inevitable, you will never know how inevitable the inevitable was.”
- written on some ****house door, in some ****hole country.
- written on some ****house door, in some ****hole country.
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Like our current DFO who famously said "there is no money in the pot" and 6 weeks later sat and watched the company buy an airline for 5 billion is cash so PC famously said "the TB was having little or no effect on the company". History tells us that "conscripts" never win against professional volunteers.
Both chararcters so utterly discredited that they are the laughing stock of the pilot community. The sad thing is they don't see it. They don't get it. The TB has/is and will continue to have an impact. If you are selected to become a trainer, take the cash and just keep doing what you are doing when you fly. When the doors shut it's your aircraft. If no training takes place what are management going to do fire you from training ?
Meantime the FTM offices continue to upgrade their teams to STC and BTC to cover the inevitable wave of resignations that will insue.
Both chararcters so utterly discredited that they are the laughing stock of the pilot community. The sad thing is they don't see it. They don't get it. The TB has/is and will continue to have an impact. If you are selected to become a trainer, take the cash and just keep doing what you are doing when you fly. When the doors shut it's your aircraft. If no training takes place what are management going to do fire you from training ?
Meantime the FTM offices continue to upgrade their teams to STC and BTC to cover the inevitable wave of resignations that will insue.
Last edited by unitedabx; 29th Mar 2019 at 10:04.
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Slahser, in reference to your points about regulators and other countries, at some point the pilots of the airline that are wanting to defend their contract will have to step up and defend THEIR contract. The pilots can't wish and hope someone else does the fighting for them. Other Countries stepping in will only happen if there is an accident, which no one wants to see.
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They cannot force you to be an enthusiastic or even a good trainer . The whole premise of being a trainer is to have sufficient spare capacity to rescue any situation at any time during the flight . You get a chance to practice this many times in the Sim . So if you screw it up and crash the sim , you ain’t going to become a training captain .
Let’s assume that no matter what they promote you . If you don’t care about being removed from training ,You don’t have to train or even file training reports that contain useful information . Progressing well is always a good fall back position .if you are coerced Take the money and simply get the aircraft safety from A-B . As for the students well sorry but you never requested to become a trainer and you have no interest in being forced to pass on your knowledge . As an example You are required to teach the fuel policy , Too hard ! Simply tell the student to read the appropriate manual .
This will,be a disaster , necessitating longer training times for students to cover required items and or additional training following a failed check .
Personally , I still maintain that this is the company’s way of promoting captains who have expressed an interest in becoming training captains ,so from my perspective anyone who stays in the system for more than a few months are volunteers and not conscripts and need to be dealt with
Let’s assume that no matter what they promote you . If you don’t care about being removed from training ,You don’t have to train or even file training reports that contain useful information . Progressing well is always a good fall back position .if you are coerced Take the money and simply get the aircraft safety from A-B . As for the students well sorry but you never requested to become a trainer and you have no interest in being forced to pass on your knowledge . As an example You are required to teach the fuel policy , Too hard ! Simply tell the student to read the appropriate manual .
This will,be a disaster , necessitating longer training times for students to cover required items and or additional training following a failed check .
Personally , I still maintain that this is the company’s way of promoting captains who have expressed an interest in becoming training captains ,so from my perspective anyone who stays in the system for more than a few months are volunteers and not conscripts and need to be dealt with
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Colleagues, this is a laughable method for the company to pretend to "insist" all pilots are now selectable for training. In reality, it is a barely disguised method for the company to now move people into training WHO HAVE EXPRESSED A DESIRE TO DO SO. This simply gives them cover ("...I was forced by the company.."). It will be quite evident that this is a farce when you see the seniority numbers of those who are doing their training upgrades. If it is not everyone in seniority order, then it will plainly be those who have chosen to break the TB. Be so advised, and act accordingly. Having said that, I have to give the management credit for thinking this up. Genius. Shame they couldn't have simply negotiated in good faith, which seems to be the only thing they can't bring themselves to do. The long, inexorable descent to oblivion is well and truly continuing. Get out while you still have career prospects elsewhere. Staying at CX will destroy everyone of you, psychologically and physically. No doubt about that at all.
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Letters sent out end of last year to a whole bunch of CNs asking if they would consider TC once the TB was no longer in force. Also a handful of TFOs, in case there was limited take up.
So you can't hide behind "they made me do it"
So you can't hide behind "they made me do it"
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52 captains already volunteering on the Airbus fleet to upgrade. Meanwhile the FTM777 has resigned.
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HOW TO BREAK THE TRAINING BAN:
1. Approach CAD and have strategy pre-approved. If they seem concerned remind them who pays their salaries.
2. Check with the legal team that CoS are not breached. If a broad violation is unavoidable ensure a legal fight can be protracted until such time your goals have been achieved.
3. Change company docs accordingly.
4. Compile a list of suitable non-volunteering volunteers.
a. Compile a list of those who have expressed an interest in training, subject to the training ban being lifted. Add to the list those who have shown a lot of “engagement” through office visits, uncritical yammer posts and those volunteering for other initiatives (FDAP, CRM, Fuel Saving group, LOSA, etc.) and those sending in useless photos of sunsets and airplanes.
b. Unofficially invite those on the list to "have a chat" and ask if they would object to becoming "reluctant collaborators".
c. Brief successful candidates that if approached by colleagues to stress that they have been forced. If need be, apply harassment & intimidation policy.
5. Intimidate pilots.
a. Sack a few of those bored, loudly barking, pointless motion proposers to shut up the rest of the pilots. Any odd excuse will do, incl. not adhering to uniform standards or checking the allowance sheet for roster changes. How can you have confidence in somebody not wearing a hat ?!
b. If you have to evaluate non-volunteering non-volunteers and they fail the assessment, demote them to FO for lack of core competencies – that will show the rest to pull up their socks.
6. Write plentiful updates in a very conciliatory and reasonable tone. Within:
a. Stress compromise, engagement, mutual respect, partnership, common goals, whilst doing the exact opposite.
b. Schedule pointless meetings with the AOA so you can claim you have consulted. Use the word “stakeholders” a lot.
c. Pretend you are forcing through the changes only in the interest of the employees, the silent majority and the greater good, ignoring the fact that 80% have voted against of what you are forcing down their throat.
7. Give the AOA the full bukkake experience
a. Have AOA-member-trainers train the new candidates
b. Force members of the GC to become trainers.
8. If any of the above fails you can rely on the infighting of AOA members, paralysing any comprehensive counter strategy.
If any of you think that every random Tom, Dick and Harry may be asked to become a trainer you are likely to also believe in the tooth fairy. This is industrial relations theater !
The company is doing nothing less but dismantling the AOA and condemning it to irrelevance. Good luck to us !
Turns out you can vote whichever way you want when it comes to TA’s, you will always end up with the CX mixologist’s rum and coke. The illusion of choice.
1. Approach CAD and have strategy pre-approved. If they seem concerned remind them who pays their salaries.
2. Check with the legal team that CoS are not breached. If a broad violation is unavoidable ensure a legal fight can be protracted until such time your goals have been achieved.
3. Change company docs accordingly.
4. Compile a list of suitable non-volunteering volunteers.
a. Compile a list of those who have expressed an interest in training, subject to the training ban being lifted. Add to the list those who have shown a lot of “engagement” through office visits, uncritical yammer posts and those volunteering for other initiatives (FDAP, CRM, Fuel Saving group, LOSA, etc.) and those sending in useless photos of sunsets and airplanes.
b. Unofficially invite those on the list to "have a chat" and ask if they would object to becoming "reluctant collaborators".
c. Brief successful candidates that if approached by colleagues to stress that they have been forced. If need be, apply harassment & intimidation policy.
5. Intimidate pilots.
a. Sack a few of those bored, loudly barking, pointless motion proposers to shut up the rest of the pilots. Any odd excuse will do, incl. not adhering to uniform standards or checking the allowance sheet for roster changes. How can you have confidence in somebody not wearing a hat ?!
b. If you have to evaluate non-volunteering non-volunteers and they fail the assessment, demote them to FO for lack of core competencies – that will show the rest to pull up their socks.
6. Write plentiful updates in a very conciliatory and reasonable tone. Within:
a. Stress compromise, engagement, mutual respect, partnership, common goals, whilst doing the exact opposite.
b. Schedule pointless meetings with the AOA so you can claim you have consulted. Use the word “stakeholders” a lot.
c. Pretend you are forcing through the changes only in the interest of the employees, the silent majority and the greater good, ignoring the fact that 80% have voted against of what you are forcing down their throat.
7. Give the AOA the full bukkake experience
a. Have AOA-member-trainers train the new candidates
b. Force members of the GC to become trainers.
8. If any of the above fails you can rely on the infighting of AOA members, paralysing any comprehensive counter strategy.
If any of you think that every random Tom, Dick and Harry may be asked to become a trainer you are likely to also believe in the tooth fairy. This is industrial relations theater !
The company is doing nothing less but dismantling the AOA and condemning it to irrelevance. Good luck to us !
Turns out you can vote whichever way you want when it comes to TA’s, you will always end up with the CX mixologist’s rum and coke. The illusion of choice.
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HOW TO BREAK THE TRAINING BAN:
1. Approach CAD and have strategy pre-approved. If they seem concerned remind them who pays their salaries.
2. Check with the legal team that CoS are not breached. If a broad violation is unavoidable ensure a legal fight can be protracted until such time your goals have been achieved.
3. Change company docs accordingly.
4. Compile a list of suitable non-volunteering volunteers.
a. Compile a list of those who have expressed an interest in training, subject to the training ban being lifted. Add to the list those who have shown a lot of “engagement” through office visits, uncritical yammer posts and those volunteering for other initiatives (FDAP, CRM, Fuel Saving group, LOSA, etc.) and those sending in useless photos of sunsets and airplanes.
b. Unofficially invite those on the list to "have a chat" and ask if they would object to becoming "reluctant collaborators".
c. Brief successful candidates that if approached by colleagues to stress that they have been forced. If need be, apply harassment & intimidation policy.
5. Intimidate pilots.
a. Sack a few of those bored, loudly barking, pointless motion proposers to shut up the rest of the pilots. Any odd excuse will do, incl. not adhering to uniform standards or checking the allowance sheet for roster changes. How can you have confidence in somebody not wearing a hat ?!
b. If you have to evaluate non-volunteering non-volunteers and they fail the assessment, demote them to FO for lack of core competencies – that will show the rest to pull up their socks.
6. Write plentiful updates in a very conciliatory and reasonable tone. Within:
a. Stress compromise, engagement, mutual respect, partnership, common goals, whilst doing the exact opposite.
b. Schedule pointless meetings with the AOA so you can claim you have consulted. Use the word “stakeholders” a lot.
c. Pretend you are forcing through the changes only in the interest of the employees, the silent majority and the greater good, ignoring the fact that 80% have voted against of what you are forcing down their throat.
7. Give the AOA the full bukkake experience
a. Have AOA-member-trainers train the new candidates
b. Force members of the GC to become trainers.
8. If any of the above fails you can rely on the infighting of AOA members, paralysing any comprehensive counter strategy.
If any of you think that every random Tom, Dick and Harry may be asked to become a trainer you are likely to also believe in the tooth fairy. This is industrial relations theater !
The company is doing nothing less but dismantling the AOA and condemning it to irrelevance. Good luck to us !
Turns out you can vote whichever way you want when it comes to TA’s, you will always end up with the CX mixologist’s rum and coke. The illusion of choice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm4fEeJ501U
1. Approach CAD and have strategy pre-approved. If they seem concerned remind them who pays their salaries.
2. Check with the legal team that CoS are not breached. If a broad violation is unavoidable ensure a legal fight can be protracted until such time your goals have been achieved.
3. Change company docs accordingly.
4. Compile a list of suitable non-volunteering volunteers.
a. Compile a list of those who have expressed an interest in training, subject to the training ban being lifted. Add to the list those who have shown a lot of “engagement” through office visits, uncritical yammer posts and those volunteering for other initiatives (FDAP, CRM, Fuel Saving group, LOSA, etc.) and those sending in useless photos of sunsets and airplanes.
b. Unofficially invite those on the list to "have a chat" and ask if they would object to becoming "reluctant collaborators".
c. Brief successful candidates that if approached by colleagues to stress that they have been forced. If need be, apply harassment & intimidation policy.
5. Intimidate pilots.
a. Sack a few of those bored, loudly barking, pointless motion proposers to shut up the rest of the pilots. Any odd excuse will do, incl. not adhering to uniform standards or checking the allowance sheet for roster changes. How can you have confidence in somebody not wearing a hat ?!
b. If you have to evaluate non-volunteering non-volunteers and they fail the assessment, demote them to FO for lack of core competencies – that will show the rest to pull up their socks.
6. Write plentiful updates in a very conciliatory and reasonable tone. Within:
a. Stress compromise, engagement, mutual respect, partnership, common goals, whilst doing the exact opposite.
b. Schedule pointless meetings with the AOA so you can claim you have consulted. Use the word “stakeholders” a lot.
c. Pretend you are forcing through the changes only in the interest of the employees, the silent majority and the greater good, ignoring the fact that 80% have voted against of what you are forcing down their throat.
7. Give the AOA the full bukkake experience
a. Have AOA-member-trainers train the new candidates
b. Force members of the GC to become trainers.
8. If any of the above fails you can rely on the infighting of AOA members, paralysing any comprehensive counter strategy.
If any of you think that every random Tom, Dick and Harry may be asked to become a trainer you are likely to also believe in the tooth fairy. This is industrial relations theater !
The company is doing nothing less but dismantling the AOA and condemning it to irrelevance. Good luck to us !
Turns out you can vote whichever way you want when it comes to TA’s, you will always end up with the CX mixologist’s rum and coke. The illusion of choice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm4fEeJ501U
The AOA are already dead. The emphasis is now on getting the hell out of here before there is a serious accident and other seniority lists close.
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This is a cunning scheme devised by the company to circumvent the training ban . This way various Capts who want to go into training will simply say they were coerced to take a training position and simply couldn’t say NO ! . So let’s see how many pass the course and remain in training . If you don’t want to go into training it’s very easy to fail the course or the online training . But I am prepared to say that some will willingly take up the mantle .
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It’s no so much that you have yourselves to blame as the fact that you are being sold down the river by selfish pilots who will not abide by the AOA TB . In the old days these people would have been taken behind the barn for a little re education .
but as long as you have people who are prepared to go against the union rules nothing will ever be achieved . Maybe the way things were handled in the old days was better
but as long as you have people who are prepared to go against the union rules nothing will ever be achieved . Maybe the way things were handled in the old days was better
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Publish their names and let the pilot community 'deal' with them. Arrive at an outport and make sure they are not invited out. In the flight deck stick to the checklist and don't engage in chat. There are so many things individual pilots can do to make it very clear these defacto SCABS are outed.
