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CX announces HK$2.3 billion profit for 2018

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

CX announces HK$2.3 billion profit for 2018

Old 21st Feb 2019, 08:35
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Originally Posted by controlledrest
For an airline thats a good return on capital. Airlines aren't great investments compared other businesses.

We will never know how much profit is really there - with transfer pricing Swire move the money around to fill their pockets, avoid the taxman and screw over the little people. The biggest transfer pricing example is the so called fuel hedge.
that applies to all airlines

to my mind the important thing is , as you say, AIRLINES AREN'T GREAT INVESTMENTS - so expecting them to be open handed and generous to their staff is a fantasy - it is a business that requires an unremitting focus on cost control and cost reduction if they want to survive - see Ryanair........
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Old 21st Feb 2019, 09:41
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...-wrap/10832110

you right...$498 million AUD for 6 months. So double.
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Old 21st Feb 2019, 09:41
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My ISM neighbour has told me HKD10,000 per employee profit share EXCLUDING CX pilots due labour unrest issues.
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Old 21st Feb 2019, 11:09
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ISM living in Moscow Comrade? Don’t think so...��
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Old 21st Feb 2019, 17:27
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Considering that the Swires have robbed many billions of USD from CX in the last several years via fuel hedges, making any profit at all is pretty good. Make no mistake, this theft has been from shareholders and employees. It has been a huge fraud, and the Hong Kong Stock Exchange ought to be investigating.
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Old 21st Feb 2019, 19:20
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
that applies to all airlines

to my mind the important thing is , as you say, AIRLINES AREN'T GREAT INVESTMENTS - so expecting them to be open handed and generous to their staff is a fantasy - it is a business that requires an unremitting focus on cost control and cost reduction if they want to survive - see Ryanair........

Costs need to be controlled and any moron with a spreadsheet can cut each line item, which is what CX do, generations of mis-manager after mis-manager. More importantly than cost cutting is yield management. It doesn't matter what your costs are provided you can charge enough to provide a desirable yield. The CX product has been cut and cut and cut, so it is no longer any better than HKA, so the customer isn't prepared to pay a premium to travel with CX. Our product is worse than other premium carriers, so again customers choose not to fly CX. With our leave and staff travel 'privileges' being so poor over the last four years I have travelled with 5 other carriers (from the budget to premium). It is shocking how far behind CX is in ticketing, seats, food, IFE and service. Have you looked at our loads around the network? Pax are ditching CX in droves. If we are to survive we need to focus on yield and manage costs, not just cost cutting.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 13:17
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I'd be interested to know which airlines can charge a premium for service these days?

Sure BA etc get away with murder on trans-Atlantic but that's because they have Heathrow sewn up

I honestly am struggling to think of any that fit the bill..... the rest of the world proves that passengers overwhelmingly choose by price and price alone
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:44
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......not my problem. I know what my services are worth. Its up to management to fit that into the budget. Many other airlines seem to manage that. The ones that dont will slowly strangle due lack of pilots. Or alternatively, you can go the Lion Air route where your inexperienced and incompetent aircrew write off an airplane every 6 months....
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:07
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Oh dear... you are in for a shock - haven't heard that sort of attitude in 30 years.... I think maybe you don't realize what is happening everywhere else

It's not up to management - its the consumers who will stiff you my friend. They go to the lowest cost airline every time and if that's Lion Air so be it

How many airlines go bust every year? Lots - and a lot of them are the "fuller service "ones

Your services are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them - and if that's less than you think you should be paid either quit or retrain...... fast..........
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 16:10
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Oh dear... you are in for a shock - haven't heard that sort of attitude in 30 years.... I think maybe you don't realize what is happening everywhere else

It's not up to management - its the consumers who will stiff you my friend. They go to the lowest cost airline every time and if that's Lion Air so be it

How many airlines go bust every year? Lots - and a lot of them are the "fuller service "ones

Your services are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them - and if that's less than you think you should be paid either quit or retrain...... fast..........
Yeah MM, the third world is taking over. People are willing to sacrifice safety for a cheap, dodgy ride atop the shanty town bus. Maybe they can put their chickens and pigs in the aisles too, for a small charge of course. Yours and my professional pilot services are no long needed because these cheap pilot ticket purchasers say so. Their lives aren’t worth very much anyways, right? Everybody should be a regional pilot on food stamps and government housing assistance, because the third world says so. Dark days ahead. China is the world’s moral compass, and Indonesians determine the value of a pilot. F me!!!
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 16:54
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Originally Posted by cxorcist


Yeah MM, the third world is taking over. People are willing to sacrifice safety for a cheap, dodgy ride atop the shanty town bus. Maybe they can put their chickens and pigs in the aisles too, for a small charge of course. Yours and my professional pilot services are no long needed because these cheap pilot ticket purchasers say so. Their lives aren’t worth very much anyways, right? Everybody should be a regional pilot on food stamps and government housing assistance, because the third world says so. Dark days ahead. China is the world’s moral compass, and Indonesians determine the value of a pilot. F me!!!

Welcome to ' Globalisation ' , a world where someone will always do it for less, and a tiny group of ' elite ' is having a blast.

Time to stop this nonsense, right here, at your very own employer. CX.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 17:05
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regretfully you are correct in almost every detail....................

When 50 million Indonesians or 200 million Chinese join the middle-class they all want to fly places - they don't give a stuff about "image" or history or your pay packet and historical benifit packages

Same in Europe when a bunch of 20 year olds go out they used to go to maybe London - now they want to fly to Riga. All they care about is PRICE

Reading this forum a lot of people at CX seem to stuck in a time warp - the management are no doubt a bunch of chiseling b****** but that's about par for the course these days everywhere in every industry. One thing I am sure of this that they understand the customers a lot better than the posters above do. They are (probably desperately) trying to avoid becoming an Alitalia, Gulf Air, Monarch or a TWA .

I'm sorry but that's the real world and that is what you are up against - you don't like it (and I don't like it for the record) but there is absolutely nothing you can do - the economic and social forces are far far bigger than a few Directors at CX
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 17:36
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“They are (probably desperately) trying to avoid becoming an Alitalia, Gulf Air, Monarch or a TWA .”

So those airlines’ struggles were due to excessive pilot packages? This notion that all airlines are created equal and success is derived only from cranking down on staff is so farcical that it’s hardly worth mentioning.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 01:49
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It's the attitudes displayed above that results in certain airlines becoming career ghettos. You only have to look at the very profitable US airlines for the example we should all be insisting on. Southwest Airlines seems to have no problem catering to the "cost conscious" traveler, and at the same time paying first world pay and associated benefits, a proper rostering system, health care and most important of all, positive management/employee relations (oh, and massive profits....). The difference is a management that values its employees, treats them properly and respects their contribution to the overall growth and prosperity of the airline. If you want to compare yourself to the bottom feeders...have at it. You'll undoubtedly succeed in reaching those lofty heights.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 02:48
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I'm sorry but that's the real world and that is what you are up against - you don't like it (and I don't like it for the record) but there is absolutely nothing you can do - the economic and social forces are far far bigger than a few Directors at CX
Pilots quoting economic theory.... priceless

Perhaps you could give us one that explains shortages of highly skilled labour caused by high attrition, being fixed by offering considerably worse employment conditions? "Idiotic Airline Executive short term bonus theory!?
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 03:05
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...well, some pilots actually possess degrees in economics. Why don't you try addressing the facts I raised pertaining to SW airlines? (oh, I get it...that example doesn't fit your narrow-minded prejudice against pilots. got it).
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:06
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole
It's the attitudes displayed above that results in certain airlines becoming career ghettos. You only have to look at the very profitable US airlines for the example we should all be insisting on. Southwest Airlines seems to have no problem catering to the "cost conscious" traveler, and at the same time paying first world pay and associated benefits, a proper rostering system, health care and most important of all, positive management/employee relations (oh, and massive profits....). The difference is a management that values its employees, treats them properly and respects their contribution to the overall growth and prosperity of the airline. If you want to compare yourself to the bottom feeders...have at it. You'll undoubtedly succeed in reaching those lofty heights.
While you're certainly correct that airlines can indeed thrive while paying livable wages, it needs to be said why. Delta, United, American, Southwest etc.. do not pay what they pay because they WANT to, they pay that because they HAVE to.

Why do they HAVE to? Because the pilots (and other employee groups) are extremely organized and maintain their leverage. Something that has taken many years and in some cases some hard lessons. They have hard fought contracts that protect agains management threats and strategies as well as potential management threats.

Never forget why management and "leadership" is there. To make money. Only two ways to do it. Make more, or spend less. Strong labor unions ensure one of those options is more or less off the table.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:24
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Mole: the facetious comment is directed at Asturias56. It's why I quoted his post and not yours..
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:35
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....ah, noted. Apologies, would help if I read the comment more carefully...
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 06:42
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Sad truth is Asturias is not far off the mark. I’m pretty sure that were your positions to be advertised next week, there would be a very long queue of crew lining up to fill them and each would be happy to accept half your present T’s&C’s. By way of example, just look to HKE and it’s ilk and tell me I’m wrong.

Is it right? No. Is it ethical? Of course Not. No one of my era recommends this as a career choice for the young. This is a big change from say 20 years ago.

Here is the harsh reality of the dumbing down of a profession by technology. Modern aircraft and ATC systems go a long way to making them shall we say... “crash resistant”. It is this metric which emboldens your freshly minted MBA wielding Managers.
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