DSS plea...
Join Date: Aug 2008
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For maybe the first time ever, I agree with MC. Sh!t or get off the pot!!! If you don’t have enough spine to do more than wear a red CC lanyard and turn down training opportunities, then this weak a$$ proposal is all you deserve. Want better? Fight harder!
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I get the feeling the company does not care if we vote Yes. It would be great for them and the bonuses if we did.... But realistically did they ever really believe the majority would vote Yes?
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I personally would love nothing more than escalating to the max, but I am probably in the minority. But voting on the TA on its merits without doing any more is perfectly fine too.
Even the idiots try to sell this turd say it is not a good deal! If it is not a good deal, vote no, and then have the balls to not give a **** what the company will do as you have been asked if you want this deal or not. You haven’t been asked if you are too scared to vote no as the boogie monster might get angry. Not is fine with me
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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Don’t give them intel!!!!
DFO is resorting to phishing to get intel!
if he wants to gauge interest, he should offer the slots and then open the base slots for bidding like it’s always been done in the past!
give them nothing! Stand united! Don’t fall for the click bait!
do not fill in anything!
if he wants to gauge interest, he should offer the slots and then open the base slots for bidding like it’s always been done in the past!
give them nothing! Stand united! Don’t fall for the click bait!
do not fill in anything!
Join Date: Sep 2017
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My scam filter is currently overloaded with all the written desperation from DS and CX to save this clinically dead agreement.
Please let this be over soon.
And yeah, it's still a big fat NO.
Please let this be over soon.
And yeah, it's still a big fat NO.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Latest ds email about what will happen if we vote yes..
"the TA includes an obligation for negotiation for pay".... that and 2 dollars gets me on the hong kong island tram...
Why don't they give us a number and THEN we will vote....what's the rush guys?
"we have received assurances that these will be dealt with expeditiously" (about vacancy bid and reduced roster option)
'Assurances' don't mean jack in this company, how many 'assurances' have we had in the past?
"the TA includes an obligation for negotiation for pay".... that and 2 dollars gets me on the hong kong island tram...
Why don't they give us a number and THEN we will vote....what's the rush guys?
"we have received assurances that these will be dealt with expeditiously" (about vacancy bid and reduced roster option)
'Assurances' don't mean jack in this company, how many 'assurances' have we had in the past?
Join Date: Aug 2008
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“Open the government, then we’ll negotiate border security.” Yeah right, how’s that working out? In other words, give us a big win and then we’ll tell you to get stuffed, nicely of course. Time to declare a national emergency, because that’s what it is.
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Two letters from DS in a short time with over 1000 words.
whats up with that?
When the membership wanted information about precedings or something like COS18 their was no info forthcoming.
thanks DS for finally writing.
But the stuff you write is embarrassing.
How about a NO, no escalation, and go negotiate the stuff we ,the memebership gave you to begin with!
Escalation should start after these negotiations go sour.
The company wants the jets flying. And at this rate less and less jets will be flying because of CX management.
not us!
whats up with that?
When the membership wanted information about precedings or something like COS18 their was no info forthcoming.
thanks DS for finally writing.
But the stuff you write is embarrassing.
How about a NO, no escalation, and go negotiate the stuff we ,the memebership gave you to begin with!
Escalation should start after these negotiations go sour.
The company wants the jets flying. And at this rate less and less jets will be flying because of CX management.
not us!
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Colleagues,
As most of you are aware, I no longer have a direct "stake" in the game. However, I still respect and honour my colleagues who have been so badly mistreated by this management over far too many years. I can say without equivocation that this is the most momentous vote in the history of the AOA. It is also a vote where it is plainly obvious that the company is desperate to force through one last attempt to neuter and render powerless that same AOA. Even though the company desperately needs a co-operative and pliant workforce, their arrogance sees them once again attempting to bully, intimidate, manipulate and deceive.
There is absolutely nothing in the offer that is worth you giving away the leverage you currently have. It is a fact that the TB and CC are slowly but surely crippling the organisation. It is also a fact that a turning point in the pilot/demand ratio in the industry has finally reduced below 1:1, and many more pilots in CX have either already left, or are making plans to do so. Both those facts combine to put CX management in a place where they are thrashing around, confused and panicked seeing their usual game plan no longer working.
All you have to do now is vote NO, remain stubbornly wedded to the TB and CC and watch as management is left with no choice but to finally begin restoring conditions and work practices to industry norms. Ask yourselves one simple question: "if this was an offer to the pilot groups of BA, QF, UA, DL, AA, LH, AF etc, etc,...would their pilot groups have a single "yes" vote?" . If the obvious answer is NO, then why would a single CX pilot vote for it either?.
Let this insulting, damaging and career ending proposal die the death it deserves. Let the company threaten and intimidate. Ultimately it is healthier for every single one of you to see the true nature of the beast that you work for. You will then know whether there is truly hope for a career in CX or not. With that information you can properly plan and secure the remaining years of your careers. The truth is a far better reality to deal with than lies, deception and false hope. The only way to truly find out the value of the future in CX is to throw this appalling offer back in their faces and insist that they provide you with a proper contract, with industry leading conditions and work rules. Anything less and you have squandered your careers.
I wish everyone the best, and truly hope to see a career at CX returned to the status it once deserved. Traf.
As most of you are aware, I no longer have a direct "stake" in the game. However, I still respect and honour my colleagues who have been so badly mistreated by this management over far too many years. I can say without equivocation that this is the most momentous vote in the history of the AOA. It is also a vote where it is plainly obvious that the company is desperate to force through one last attempt to neuter and render powerless that same AOA. Even though the company desperately needs a co-operative and pliant workforce, their arrogance sees them once again attempting to bully, intimidate, manipulate and deceive.
There is absolutely nothing in the offer that is worth you giving away the leverage you currently have. It is a fact that the TB and CC are slowly but surely crippling the organisation. It is also a fact that a turning point in the pilot/demand ratio in the industry has finally reduced below 1:1, and many more pilots in CX have either already left, or are making plans to do so. Both those facts combine to put CX management in a place where they are thrashing around, confused and panicked seeing their usual game plan no longer working.
All you have to do now is vote NO, remain stubbornly wedded to the TB and CC and watch as management is left with no choice but to finally begin restoring conditions and work practices to industry norms. Ask yourselves one simple question: "if this was an offer to the pilot groups of BA, QF, UA, DL, AA, LH, AF etc, etc,...would their pilot groups have a single "yes" vote?" . If the obvious answer is NO, then why would a single CX pilot vote for it either?.
Let this insulting, damaging and career ending proposal die the death it deserves. Let the company threaten and intimidate. Ultimately it is healthier for every single one of you to see the true nature of the beast that you work for. You will then know whether there is truly hope for a career in CX or not. With that information you can properly plan and secure the remaining years of your careers. The truth is a far better reality to deal with than lies, deception and false hope. The only way to truly find out the value of the future in CX is to throw this appalling offer back in their faces and insist that they provide you with a proper contract, with industry leading conditions and work rules. Anything less and you have squandered your careers.
I wish everyone the best, and truly hope to see a career at CX returned to the status it once deserved. Traf.
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The point is this is the best negotiations that are going to happen. DSS is trying to say without support and or a push of action, this is the best they have. You want to do better you have to as a group squeeze the money out.
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To follow on as Traf's message, there are only two choices in this farce...
1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..
OR
2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!
Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.
May the Force be with you.
1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..
OR
2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!
Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.
May the Force be with you.
Join Date: Sep 2017
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To follow on as Traf's message, there are only two choices in this farce...
1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..
OR
2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!
Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.
May the Force be with you.
1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..
OR
2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!
Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.
May the Force be with you.
ND would be shocked at the utter lack of resolve.
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Not true at all. Maybe you’re projecting your own lack of spine, but SO many are ready to walk. Or quit. Or do something else. Please take your own down-and-out attitude to a different profession. We’re busy trying to improve ours.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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That said, nobody wants to be the only one charging the enemy while the rest sit in their trenches. Think JL. This Company will only relent under a full assault from a vast majority of the pilots. KA and based unions need to pony up too. This “I’m alright Jack” mentality needs to go. If we don’t put a stop to this, none of us are going to be alright, including KA and based pilots.
Leadership from the HKAOA is definitely lacking. They seem to want the membership to take the reigns while they lead from behind. This is weak, not leadership. If you can’t or won’t lead, get the hell off the GC. That includes you DSS and RL.
I disagreed with most of Rod’s leadership because he ran a one man show, but at least he had b@lls and vision. I’m not getting any of that from the current cohort. They seem completely hypnotized and duped by this spineless management team.
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MC, you really need to give it up mate. However, I personally enjoy seeing the evidence of management panic that you portray. As for the management "finding a workaround for the TB", good luck to them. They will be lucky to have any C and T's left, what with many of them leaving over the next year or so. You and your management can barely scrape together enough training capacity to sustain the required regulatory events, never mind being able to actually train upgrades and Commands. Perhaps if you didn't have to replace literally hundreds of pilots that your policies have chased out the door, you could actually focus on growing the airline...you know, like normal companies try to do. Instead, your pathological desire to attack the pilot workforce has led the airline to a place where, in the midst of a worldwide pilot shortage, you find most of your highly trained and experienced crew are saying adios. CX only succeeded in spite of itself all these years, and now that they have competition and are forced to actually demonstrate skilled management, you find you simply are inadequate on all levels. Your only response is to blame the pilots for everything. Don't worry, pretty soon there won't be many of us around to blame. Congrats. Oh, enjoy the vote results later today.. Cheers.
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MM,
He's talking about the latest rumour of age 67 retirement. Again, just like the zoologist promised, this will reduce time to command, as well as "getting around the TB".
Luv it!
He's talking about the latest rumour of age 67 retirement. Again, just like the zoologist promised, this will reduce time to command, as well as "getting around the TB".
Luv it!
