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Refuelling with Pax on Board/Boarding

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Refuelling with Pax on Board/Boarding

Old 19th Jan 2019, 08:58
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Refuelling with Pax on Board/Boarding

Question for CX guys. In Hong Kong - are you required to have ground crew on the headset for refuelling with Pax on board/boarding?
I realise rules differ between countries - but what about in HKG?
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 09:42
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No specific requirement for ground staff, enough cabin crew and available doors is what you will need. But then again depends on what your Operations Manual states as well as what the airport authority authorise your company to do.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 11:23
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Do you work for CX?
I'm asking for CX policy only here.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 15:08
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Why do you ask?
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 15:27
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A headset has to be attached during refueling.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 03:50
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You’re so suspicious Oasis. It’s not a trick question. There seem to be variations in opinion on what is legally required and CX is what I would consider to be the Gold Standard. Hence the specific question.

Not interested in HX opinions thanks. Not renowned for adherence to regulations.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 04:36
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You could’ve explained first why you need company policy info.
So I asked, it is regrettable I exceeded the allowed suspiciousness level.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 04:46
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And......? Do you know the answer?
Perhaps not.

Originally Posted by spannersatcx View Post
A headset has to be attached during refueling.
Yes - but does someone have to be on the headset to maintain communications during fuelling with pax onboard?
Whats the point of having a headset plugged in and abandoned?
Maybe its unserviceable. Can you assume it will work when/if needed without at least a test call?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 04:59
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If you want regulatory requirements just go to to Air Navigation Order (Hong Kong) 1985 and its later amendments for the specifics and requirements you seek.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 05:03
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@OP

The answer on what is legally required is best found in the applicable regulations, do not you think?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 05:21
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
@OP

The answer on what is legally required is best found in the applicable regulations, do not you think?
Originally Posted by fpuentegomez View Post
If you want regulatory requirements just go to to Air Navigation Order (Hong Kong) 1985 and its later amendments for the specifics and requirements you seek.
True enough.
Here's an extract from the HKIA AOM Part E Section 5 (On fuel handling procedures)

During fuelling with pax on board/boarding:

5.3.10 Communications shall be maintained by aeroplane intercommunications
system or other suitable means between the refuelling in-charge and the pilot.

What does that mean to you?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 05:49
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I'll put it another way for you.

What if - during refuelling with pax on board - the Captain sees an ECAM Cargo Smoke Warning with firebell and red Master Caution.

What use is the headset if nobody is on it?

What use is the headset if he tries to use it and finds it is unserviceable?

Does MAINTAIN COMMUNICATIONS not mean establish and remain in contact?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 07:47
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Yep, happens from time to time. False warnings from humidity, full ECAM smoke warning and it gets the Heart started.
It doesnt take much to handle the ECAM while a crew member contacts the mechanic or if he’s busy run down the stairs yourself and check....

“Headset connected” is all it says, they don’t need to be on it all the time.

Ok
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 08:33
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OK thanks ACMS.
But in fact the HKIA AOM does say Communications shall be maintained.
There may be debate as to what that actually means. But IMHO, what's the point of plugging in the headset if it's left unmanned and untested? Just for decoration?
If there IS any debate don't you think the SAFEST definition should be accepted? Isn't that what we're supposed to do? Prioritise safety?
Why NOT do it?
Is it a cost issue?

Safety first?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 09:18
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Not enough staff, the mechanics have quite a bit to do already on the Aircraft. It comes down to dollars.....and a cost v extra safety analysis.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 11:34
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I doubt that. Every time I do a walkaround I see mechanics playing Candy Crush on their phone, or having a snooze in the tug.
And anyway, is cost accepted by the CAD/HKIA as an acceptable reason for not applying the regulations?
Who did the analysis?
The bean counters?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 14:49
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Plugged in and Abandoned

Originally Posted by ROW_BOT View Post
And......? Do you know the answer?
Perhaps not.


Yes - but does someone have to be on the headset to maintain communications during fuelling with pax onboard?
Whats the point of having a headset plugged in and abandoned?
Maybe its unserviceable. Can you assume it will work when/if needed without at least a test call?
I love that line; makes me think of CX management ("leadership") philosophy...
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 15:16
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CX is what I would consider to be the Gold Standard.
I have no words........
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 15:39
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Originally Posted by Flex88 View Post
I love that line; makes me think of CX management ("leadership") philosophy...
Exactly my point Flex88. Isn't the 'plugged in headset' just another example of 'Safety Theatrics'?
Used to be you had to have the Fire Services standing by at the aircraft during fuelling with pax on board.
Later it became necessary only if an incapacitated passenger was on board.
Then it became merely a request to ATC to 'advise' the Fire Services, but have a crewman on the headset during the whole process.
Now he just plugs in a dodgy headset and walks away.
But is it even legal? I wonder if the CAD/HKIA are aware of this practice and of the apparent conflict with the HKIA AOM?
Quote:CX is what I would consider to be the Gold Standard.
I have no words........
Just say thanks.

Last edited by ROW_BOT; 20th Jan 2019 at 15:55.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 16:39
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Just say thanks.
Sir: Either your Sarcasm detector is seriously out of whack or you have less clue about what’s going on around here then about refueling (and incidentally, why do you care so much anyway - slow day in the pub?)
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