Is there no Pros to being in CX?
Join Date: Aug 2008
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So wrong. Those staying are on VERY different terms than new hire pilots. If you don’t know that, what hope is there?
Also, many hundreds of CX pilots have left for lower paying (on paper) jobs. I personally know several dozens whom have left. Fact!
Is there a self preservation component to comments on here? Absolutely! The steadily eroding conditions put downward pressure on existing packages. We don’t want to train and share cockpits with non-pilots on pittance contracts.
CX’s actions show they don’t care about safety, but we do. Many of those being hired and placed on the line on the last few years are unsafe. It doesn’t matter how much they are paid. A better contract will bring in better applicants. All of us at CX want that.
Also, many hundreds of CX pilots have left for lower paying (on paper) jobs. I personally know several dozens whom have left. Fact!
Is there a self preservation component to comments on here? Absolutely! The steadily eroding conditions put downward pressure on existing packages. We don’t want to train and share cockpits with non-pilots on pittance contracts.
CX’s actions show they don’t care about safety, but we do. Many of those being hired and placed on the line on the last few years are unsafe. It doesn’t matter how much they are paid. A better contract will bring in better applicants. All of us at CX want that.
I have lurked for too long, whilst seeing on PPRuNe, the disintegration of the HKAOA, and management's exploitation of your dysfunctional group. I am an HK expat with aviation interests, many decades Marco Polo member, but now choose not to fly CX because the product is not what it was.
The flight crew guys that I know are all on terms, with ARAPA and using the cash to buy investment properties in HK. All are reveling in CX's woes, with much ridicule of the late Anna, and now much denigration of the Jellyfish. Also, much criticism of SOs from Cadet intake. So workplace and cockpit morale are compromised. All are exuberant about the rate of resignations. When asked about training policy and their personal promotion, they become ambivalent.
When asked about moving on, all plead GOLDEN HANDCUFFS! So not underpaid.
Acceptance of "seniority" is an anachronism in today's world. Any true profession does not work like this.
No wonder you guys can't sort yourselves out. You get what you deserve.
Truly Cathay Pathetic.
The flight crew guys that I know are all on terms, with ARAPA and using the cash to buy investment properties in HK. All are reveling in CX's woes, with much ridicule of the late Anna, and now much denigration of the Jellyfish. Also, much criticism of SOs from Cadet intake. So workplace and cockpit morale are compromised. All are exuberant about the rate of resignations. When asked about training policy and their personal promotion, they become ambivalent.
When asked about moving on, all plead GOLDEN HANDCUFFS! So not underpaid.
Acceptance of "seniority" is an anachronism in today's world. Any true profession does not work like this.
No wonder you guys can't sort yourselves out. You get what you deserve.
Truly Cathay Pathetic.
Join Date: May 2018
Location: HKSAR
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No offence but if you guys had walked the talk, it would have given credence to all your rants about CX. But the fact that the vast majority of you are still lingering at CX, despite all the alleged pitfalls, suggests otherwise.
May be, you guys are hoping that by dissuading potential applicants from joining, CX will somehow fall short of pilots, which will consequently lead to a better T&C, which you guys can then enjoy.
Seriously guys, if things were that bad, you would have just got the f out of HK, pronto. Period.
Don't get me started with alibis like 'I only have x years to retirement' or 'I have kids at school' or the likes. If CX is really that bad, as most of you insinuate, vote with your feet. As I said earlier, it will at least give credence to all our moans and rants.
Just my 2 cents, who is looking for that ever elusive airline job.
May be, you guys are hoping that by dissuading potential applicants from joining, CX will somehow fall short of pilots, which will consequently lead to a better T&C, which you guys can then enjoy.
Seriously guys, if things were that bad, you would have just got the f out of HK, pronto. Period.
Don't get me started with alibis like 'I only have x years to retirement' or 'I have kids at school' or the likes. If CX is really that bad, as most of you insinuate, vote with your feet. As I said earlier, it will at least give credence to all our moans and rants.
Just my 2 cents, who is looking for that ever elusive airline job.
It is that bad.
No I don't have kids. Yes I do have an eye on my retirement eventually.
Ever elusive airline job... Seriously? Start looking harder.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Rosterabuseland
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As a cadet, with I'm assuming little to no flying hours CX is one of the very few airlines that will fund your training, which is quite a major pro. Think only Lufthansa, Air France, Emirates, Aer Lingus and CX offer ab-initio training that you don't have to pay up-front, even BA have recently gone down the road of requiring a contribution of £100,000+ from their cadets.
For someone wanting to pursue flying with low hours the CX cadet program remains one of the best opportunities out there. If your alternative is to fly in Europe then your options are very limited:
option 1: try out for one of the self funded cadet programs (easyJet, Vueling, Flybe, BA) either work for 10+ years saving as much as you can, take out a massive loan or have a rich family to afford the £100,000+ course fees.
option 2: again spend £100,000+ on an integrated course with a flying school with airline links on the hope that you might be able to land a jet job straight out of school.
option 3: go modular and still spend around £50,000-70,000 on your training, if you're very lucky then drop another £5000 on a type rating with a 3 year bond attached to fly for Ryanair and if you're not lucky then end up with f*ck all just again a lot of debt or wasted money.
CX may not be perfect, but there really is no better opportunity out there for someone who would be in the position of applying for the cadet program
For someone wanting to pursue flying with low hours the CX cadet program remains one of the best opportunities out there. If your alternative is to fly in Europe then your options are very limited:
option 1: try out for one of the self funded cadet programs (easyJet, Vueling, Flybe, BA) either work for 10+ years saving as much as you can, take out a massive loan or have a rich family to afford the £100,000+ course fees.
option 2: again spend £100,000+ on an integrated course with a flying school with airline links on the hope that you might be able to land a jet job straight out of school.
option 3: go modular and still spend around £50,000-70,000 on your training, if you're very lucky then drop another £5000 on a type rating with a 3 year bond attached to fly for Ryanair and if you're not lucky then end up with f*ck all just again a lot of debt or wasted money.
CX may not be perfect, but there really is no better opportunity out there for someone who would be in the position of applying for the cadet program
Of course, we all started somewhere and in debt so this is no different, whoever is looking needs to take all those factors into consideration rather than looking for confirmation bias which seems to be the case most of the time.
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Sorry JA but that's factually incorrect. CX now make you pay upfront 50% and I believe that number is $700kHKD (happy to be corrected). This is repaid over 3 years, so $20kpm. deduct that from your Yr1,2,3 SO salary, tax rent, living costs and you are left with around $5000-$8000pm....assuming you has a wad of cash to start with to help with the setup costs!
This salary reduction scheme is the same way that Air France's, Aer Lingus and Lufthansa's schemes work.
If you guys have any suggestions as to better ways to break into the industry then please let me know. I realise I missed off the military from my options (although pretty much all European airforces are being cut down atm) and instructing to build hours (although still leaves the initial investment and even though its not great, a CX SO lifestyle sounds better than an instructors, also progression is much faster and easier) but the state of the industry is pretty ****e for wannabes, even with a 'pilot shortage'.
Join Date: Feb 2015
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I have lurked for too long, whilst seeing on PPRuNe, the disintegration of the HKAOA, and management's exploitation of your dysfunctional group. I am an HK expat with aviation interests, many decades Marco Polo member, but now choose not to fly CX because the product is not what it was.
The flight crew guys that I know are all on terms, with ARAPA and using the cash to buy investment properties in HK. All are reveling in CX's woes, with much ridicule of the late Anna, and now much denigration of the Jellyfish. Also, much criticism of SOs from Cadet intake. So workplace and cockpit morale are compromised. All are exuberant about the rate of resignations. When asked about training policy and their personal promotion, they become ambivalent.
When asked about moving on, all plead GOLDEN HANDCUFFS! So not underpaid.
Acceptance of "seniority" is an anachronism in today's world. Any true profession does not work like this.
No wonder you guys can't sort yourselves out. You get what you deserve.
Truly Cathay Pathetic.
The flight crew guys that I know are all on terms, with ARAPA and using the cash to buy investment properties in HK. All are reveling in CX's woes, with much ridicule of the late Anna, and now much denigration of the Jellyfish. Also, much criticism of SOs from Cadet intake. So workplace and cockpit morale are compromised. All are exuberant about the rate of resignations. When asked about training policy and their personal promotion, they become ambivalent.
When asked about moving on, all plead GOLDEN HANDCUFFS! So not underpaid.
Acceptance of "seniority" is an anachronism in today's world. Any true profession does not work like this.
No wonder you guys can't sort yourselves out. You get what you deserve.
Truly Cathay Pathetic.
Join Date: Feb 2015
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The difference between the 80's and today, is that in the 80's you only left Cathay for one of the following three reasons
1 Retirement
2 Ill Health / Death
3 Be Fired.
Thus they were not concerned about training costs back then . They knew that the workforce would, for the most part, be with them for 20+ years so it wasn't an issue . Plus everyone they recruited had thousands of flying hours
Today it's very different Cadets, and a lack of a long term career
1 Retirement
2 Ill Health / Death
3 Be Fired.
Thus they were not concerned about training costs back then . They knew that the workforce would, for the most part, be with them for 20+ years so it wasn't an issue . Plus everyone they recruited had thousands of flying hours
Today it's very different Cadets, and a lack of a long term career
Join Date: Oct 2018
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No offence intended by what I am about to say, but it has to be said. In the current climate, if you are struggling to find an airline job then there is something seriously wrong with you. Either that or you are a fresh CPL holder punching above your weight?
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Join Date: Jun 2017
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No offence intended by what I am about to say, but it has to be said. In the current climate, if you are struggling to find an airline job then there is something seriously wrong with you. Either that or you are a fresh CPL holder punching above your weight?
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Yes, my case is the latter, just another CPL holder. But hey, I was not punching above my weight. As I said, I never intended to offend anyone but I was just curious as to why there's a discrepancy b/w words (rant) and action (resignation)?!
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My advice to you is to get yourself into a legacy carrier in your home country and make a career of it. Sadly that is all that this industry has left to offer, the rest is hollow and meaningless. I understand you want to build hours, great. We have all been there and done that. When I finished my CPL I packed my belongings into a suitcase and moved between 3 different countries to build time. Now I'm sitting in a wide body doing what I had always dreamed of, but guess what? It sucks. I hate the country I live in, I have no work/life balance, and to top it all off my family is extremely unhappy here because of the reasons I just listed. Now I long to go back to my home country and to do so will cost me everything I have spent over a decade working towards. But it has to be done. Meanwhile, all of my friends who stayed put are now sitting nicely in a legacy carrier, have a great work/life balance and a rewarding career ahead of them. I'll most likely be flying a turbo prop in less than a year from now.
Unless you want to end up like me, and countless others in airlines like CX, EK, EY, QR, you name it, don't fall into the trap of the big shiny long haul gig. Get yourself into a company that offers a long and stable career path, not just a quick upgrade. Upgrades are usually quick for a reason, and that means you won't be staying long either. Where do you go after the shiny upgrade wears off? China? Remember; the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
At the end of the day, once you close the flight deck door, it is all the same. Just another aeroplane, airport, set of cabin crew.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.
Join Date: Jun 2017
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The discrepancy is because life just isn't that simple. People have families, mortgages, etc. I wish I could resign right now, but I can't.
My advice to you is to get yourself into a legacy carrier in your home country and make a career of it. Sadly that is all that this industry has left to offer, the rest is hollow and meaningless. I understand you want to build hours, great. We have all been there and done that. When I finished my CPL I packed my belongings into a suitcase and moved between 3 different countries to build time. Now I'm sitting in a wide body doing what I had always dreamed of, but guess what? It sucks. I hate the country I live in, I have no work/life balance, and to top it all off my family is extremely unhappy here because of the reasons I just listed. Now I long to go back to my home country and to do so will cost me everything I have spent over a decade working towards. But it has to be done. Meanwhile, all of my friends who stayed put are now sitting nicely in a legacy carrier, have a great work/life balance and a rewarding career ahead of them. I'll most likely be flying a turbo prop in less than a year from now.
Unless you want to end up like me, and countless others in airlines like CX, EK, EY, QR, you name it, don't fall into the trap of the big shiny long haul gig. Get yourself into a company that offers a long and stable career path, not just a quick upgrade. Upgrades are usually quick for a reason, and that means you won't be staying long either. Where do you go after the shiny upgrade wears off? China? Remember; the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
At the end of the day, once you close the flight deck door, it is all the same. Just another aeroplane, airport, set of cabin crew.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.
My advice to you is to get yourself into a legacy carrier in your home country and make a career of it. Sadly that is all that this industry has left to offer, the rest is hollow and meaningless. I understand you want to build hours, great. We have all been there and done that. When I finished my CPL I packed my belongings into a suitcase and moved between 3 different countries to build time. Now I'm sitting in a wide body doing what I had always dreamed of, but guess what? It sucks. I hate the country I live in, I have no work/life balance, and to top it all off my family is extremely unhappy here because of the reasons I just listed. Now I long to go back to my home country and to do so will cost me everything I have spent over a decade working towards. But it has to be done. Meanwhile, all of my friends who stayed put are now sitting nicely in a legacy carrier, have a great work/life balance and a rewarding career ahead of them. I'll most likely be flying a turbo prop in less than a year from now.
Unless you want to end up like me, and countless others in airlines like CX, EK, EY, QR, you name it, don't fall into the trap of the big shiny long haul gig. Get yourself into a company that offers a long and stable career path, not just a quick upgrade. Upgrades are usually quick for a reason, and that means you won't be staying long either. Where do you go after the shiny upgrade wears off? China? Remember; the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
At the end of the day, once you close the flight deck door, it is all the same. Just another aeroplane, airport, set of cabin crew.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.
As for legacy carriers in my home country (India), it is an absolute mess here, hence looking elsewhere!
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The discrepancy is because life just isn't that simple. People have families, mortgages, etc. I wish I could resign right now, but I can't.
My advice to you is to get yourself into a legacy carrier in your home country and make a career of it. Sadly that is all that this industry has left to offer, the rest is hollow and meaningless. I understand you want to build hours, great. We have all been there and done that. When I finished my CPL I packed my belongings into a suitcase and moved between 3 different countries to build time. Now I'm sitting in a wide body doing what I had always dreamed of, but guess what? It sucks. I hate the country I live in, I have no work/life balance, and to top it all off my family is extremely unhappy here because of the reasons I just listed. Now I long to go back to my home country and to do so will cost me everything I have spent over a decade working towards. But it has to be done. Meanwhile, all of my friends who stayed put are now sitting nicely in a legacy carrier, have a great work/life balance and a rewarding career ahead of them. I'll most likely be flying a turbo prop in less than a year from now.
Unless you want to end up like me, and countless others in airlines like CX, EK, EY, QR, you name it, don't fall into the trap of the big shiny long haul gig. Get yourself into a company that offers a long and stable career path, not just a quick upgrade. Upgrades are usually quick for a reason, and that means you won't be staying long either. Where do you go after the shiny upgrade wears off? China? Remember; the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
At the end of the day, once you close the flight deck door, it is all the same. Just another aeroplane, airport, set of cabin crew.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.
My advice to you is to get yourself into a legacy carrier in your home country and make a career of it. Sadly that is all that this industry has left to offer, the rest is hollow and meaningless. I understand you want to build hours, great. We have all been there and done that. When I finished my CPL I packed my belongings into a suitcase and moved between 3 different countries to build time. Now I'm sitting in a wide body doing what I had always dreamed of, but guess what? It sucks. I hate the country I live in, I have no work/life balance, and to top it all off my family is extremely unhappy here because of the reasons I just listed. Now I long to go back to my home country and to do so will cost me everything I have spent over a decade working towards. But it has to be done. Meanwhile, all of my friends who stayed put are now sitting nicely in a legacy carrier, have a great work/life balance and a rewarding career ahead of them. I'll most likely be flying a turbo prop in less than a year from now.
Unless you want to end up like me, and countless others in airlines like CX, EK, EY, QR, you name it, don't fall into the trap of the big shiny long haul gig. Get yourself into a company that offers a long and stable career path, not just a quick upgrade. Upgrades are usually quick for a reason, and that means you won't be staying long either. Where do you go after the shiny upgrade wears off? China? Remember; the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
At the end of the day, once you close the flight deck door, it is all the same. Just another aeroplane, airport, set of cabin crew.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.
