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CHAIRMAN CUTTING A DEAL

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CHAIRMAN CUTTING A DEAL

Old 15th Dec 2018, 23:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Firewall,

He was the President at the time, can you explain if he had any responsibilities at all in that position since forgetting SHP is/was a pretty major fu*k up. Kind of think that looking out for the workforce should have been job #1 well before personal crusades...........

I'll admit I had the slim chance of $204K coming my way, which may or may not match your adulation, fawning and general gushing over RF.

Do you not think the membership is owed a simple apology?
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 03:40
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,950
Ugh, focus on the true enemy gents. CX loves this!
cxorcist is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 05:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 38
I'm with cxorcist. Take it up with RF on the forums.

Also, perhaps pay more attention to what the current GC is doing, not the previous. 2 GC members have resigned from the GC this week. That doesn't sound healthy. Perhaps your current leaders need to be asked some questions.
Liam Gallagher is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 05:28
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 326
probably worth asking why they left the GC, it may not be because of the current leaders. In some cases personal issues arise and it means they no longer have time to serve on the GC
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:08
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
I'm with cxorcist. Take it up with RF on the forums.

Also, perhaps pay more attention to what the current GC is doing, not the previous. 2 GC members have resigned from the GC this week. That doesn't sound healthy. Perhaps your current leaders need to be asked some questions.
+1

Get a [HKAOA] room please.
spleener is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 23:55
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
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Safe to say that this Post certainly needs Bumping up.

Makes perfect sense now.
betpump5 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 05:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
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When the chairman said no floor.... he wasn't kidding, what a utter disgrace
Firefly47 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 07:29
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
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My 2 Biggest concerns:

1.People who think it's worth reading past the Umbrella Agreement. I mean seriously??

2. This thread isn't getting the attention it deserves - especially now we have the TA.
betpump5 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 08:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lav
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I thought I read somewhere that DS et als. came right out of the gate w/ concessions before "negotiations" even began. IIRC he himself revealed that nugget before the POS18 round. That should have set off alarm bells for everyone... He always seems to be radio silent through all of the fires, including now. Not exactly characteristics of a leader....
Amber Vibes is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 00:35
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Snoop

Originally Posted by Firefly47 View Post
When the chairman said no floor.... he wasn't kidding, what a utter disgrace
Surely he meant 3rd floor..........can see him there anytime soon after this........................
NotHere is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 05:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Next stop DFO....
RAT Management is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 08:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 757
Why is it only RL (and sounding increasingly frantic) that is trying to defend this appalling proposal? Where is DS? Why on earth did the AOA endorse this? There is NOTHING worth endorsing in what is the worst offer ever from our discredited management. NO excuse for this lame AOA exec to endorse. None.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2019, 22:57
  #33 (permalink)  
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Apparently at the Focus Night RL was advising members to vote NO. So the idiots who negotiated the deal are now recommending a NO vote but the general committee is recommending a YES vote. Amateurs.
Kendra689 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 14:33
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Kendra689 View Post
Apparently at the Focus Night RL was advising members to vote NO. So the idiots who negotiated the deal are now recommending a NO vote but the general committee is recommending a YES vote. Amateurs.
Ha ha - really? That's what he said?

People hear what they want to.


I think what was said was more along the lines of - if you do nothing, you get a nothing result. We have done nothing but CC and TB for a few years and this is the result - a HKPA offer lower than TA16. So if the intent is to vote no and do nothing for the next 2-3 years, what will the result be? Membership survey indicates that the majority will not ramp things up - yes the vocal 5% here and on forums are willing to - but the silent majority are NOT.

We have around 200TC/STC/BTC. We have lost maybe 20-30% in 3 years. Looking at demographics we are due to lose 11 more over the next two years. So that will reduce training capacity by about 5%. KA have freed up around 38TCs but not sure how many are 330 vs 320? Our training load last year was less than a third of what it was in 2015 - so we have a lot of excess slack in training at this moment. We can more than double the training load in 2019 - I suspect the 2018 under load was much in part due to the 2 SO ops - it would have saved around 130 FO slots for them. Plus we recruited around 100 less than planned.

So will the TB work in time? We need about 50TCC/STCs or so for the minimum level of licensing(though some sims can be done by those over 65). We need around 5 or so to cover RA55/65 departures(CN/FO/SO courses) For attrition we would need maybe 30ish to replace say 100 pilots. We are due to lose around 34 more TC/STC/BTC over the next 5 years so that will reduce their current training capacity by 15%! (again assuming no one leaves the union to join training)

So is the TB the silver bullet everyone assumes?

Focus night
So what was ACTUALLY said was - if it is a yes vote, make it 51% so CX don't think it was over generous - if it is a no vote, make it 95% so they know how unhappy we are. But keep in mind - if you continue to do nothing then nothing is what you will get as it will take years for the TB to bite. You think we will keep the same resignation rate of TCs? Maybe the TCs who resigned are all those that would take the moral high ground of leaving. The rest will be on good overtime. So what rate will we lose TCs in future? What rate will others cross the line?


What was also said at a focus night was - even if the NC and GC were incompetent, the membership get to decide by a democratic vote. So please enjoy your conspiracy theories - they make for fun bar talk. I still haven't got my pony but I am hopeful.
Numero Crunchero is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 21:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Numero Crunchero, how many Members have quit the HKAOA since the “Yes” recommendation by the GC ?
kenfoggo is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 21:24
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kenfoggo View Post
Numero Crunchero, how many Members have quit the HKAOA since the Yes recommendation by the GC ?
Im guessing very few. Why? Because they want to vote NO first. Then they will quit, and the HKAOA will officially become an eunuch, almost there...
cxorcist is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 22:49
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
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I have a simple question for Numero Cruncher (and the rest of the GC/NC). How could you possibly "recommend" this appalling offer to the membership? Yes, you can present it, but "recommend" it? No credibility left whatsoever. In fact, I suspect you may have killed off the AOA. The recommendation was bad enough, but your constant efforts to justify your decision is only leaving an even more bitter taste in peoples mouths. First we'll vote this monstrosity down, then we'll turf out the current leadership of the AOA.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 01:15
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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And then.......what? Mngmt Mole? What will you do?

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Old 15th Jan 2019, 03:49
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Ken, MM and I (and many like us) will do what we've always done. Vote our conscience and deal with the outcome. We've rejected the company's proposals (final, according to them) before, and they have come back with more pay and benefits. This is the worst proposal in my career. It's an insult and a shot across the bow's of any career worth having at CX. At this point, I would rather force the issue and determine once and for all whether there is a career at CX or not. Voting "yes" on this monstrosity will only empower the management to strip away the last vestiges of value. So take your childish taunts elsewhere. You sound like a management sycophant.

(and as to MM's question to the GC/NC, yes...how on earth could you "recommend" this sickening proposal?)
Air Profit is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 04:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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If the company had offered a 5% pay cut the NC would have recommended a yes vote!
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