".......COS99 RA65 discussions"
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".......COS99 RA65 discussions"
Huh???!! So this is being discussed and bargained now is it (according to latest letter)? Sorry boys and girls, you had your chance to sign over years ago and you didn't. Every Cos08 member will vote no for this one.
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Everyone who gets HKPA keep in mind the COS99ers are on full housing, have received years of bypass pay and now will want to stay on for RA65 and delay your upgrade even more. On top of that they will kill any possible chance of you getting a base. VOTE NO TO THIS!!!
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Xwindldg,
Wow!!! So you obviously joined up as HKPA and haven't realized that not everyone who is on Cos99 is not on ARAPA, how long have you been here? Now you are trying to divide and conquer our crew so you can get more!!! You are playing right into the companies hand you had better realize that you are no longer the cheapest crew at CX, COS18 is and wait till they try to trash the deal you joined to better theirs. what goes around comes around!!
People please remembe,r no matter what deal you joined on we are ALL under attack and the best defence is for us ALL to stick together!!!!
Wow!!! So you obviously joined up as HKPA and haven't realized that not everyone who is on Cos99 is not on ARAPA, how long have you been here? Now you are trying to divide and conquer our crew so you can get more!!! You are playing right into the companies hand you had better realize that you are no longer the cheapest crew at CX, COS18 is and wait till they try to trash the deal you joined to better theirs. what goes around comes around!!
People please remembe,r no matter what deal you joined on we are ALL under attack and the best defence is for us ALL to stick together!!!!
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I for one was not willing to sign over to COS 08. Why should I have to sign over to an inferior contract?
Just wait until the COS 18 chaps start crying foul when someone on COS 08 returns off a base and stays on their original contract. Heaven forbid they be forced to cos 18.
Just wait until the COS 18 chaps start crying foul when someone on COS 08 returns off a base and stays on their original contract. Heaven forbid they be forced to cos 18.
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All 99 guys had a chance to sign over to 08. You willingly took the money now and stayed on RA55. If you now stay until RA65 you will delay everyone below you. Can't have it all!
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The whole "ohh let's stay united" is bs. So it's ok for you to now delay us even more, on top of the last few years? Love this united movement that only seems to benefit a tiny group!
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What reazasassain said.
Xwindlndg you need a history lesson.
Why would you sign an inferior contract? For the "priveledge" of working an extra 10 years it would have cost FOs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Something anyone in the left seat even for a day at the time got absolutely free? It's not right and the majority of COS99 FOs and some captains did not sign based on principle and what most countries deem LAW(age discrimination in first world countries), not to mention loss of income.
Based officers in the USA were compensated for lost bypass pay because they were forced onto an inferior contract which, in the states, is against the law. Details were not published because of a gag clause. UK and NZ won their age discrimination cases, settlements were paid, but again no details because of a gag clause. Tells you something about how far behind HK is with labor law.
The point is, the way the company went about it was just wrong and we could'nt fight it because in Hong Kong we have weak labour laws. Some got an improvement for no cost. Others had to pay for the improvement. I don't see how that is not discrimination??
If the AOA is infact discussing age retirement 65 then they are trying to right a wrong for those members who were affected.
I fault no one for signing COS08. It worked for some people and some people it didn't.
Xwindlndg either you weren't here in 08 or you signed over. If you signed over I get it, but you should be rooting for all your colleagues to get what they are owed regardless.
If you were'nt here in 08 and you are concerned your upgrade will be delayed because a group ahead of you is awarded their legal right to work to 65, I also get it, but please be honest. When you signed did you even know some had to retire at 55? If so did you calculate your upgrade time based on how many would leave at 55? Would you have signed anyway? Anyone that leaves before 65 is simply a bonus to any junior officer because legally you can work to 65. If this were a first world country the contract your colleagues are on would be irrelevant.
Big question is....the way this company is headed, will people want to stay until 65? Very doubtful all would if they could. Even guys on the new "A" scale aren't staying to 65. I don't see that trend changing.
Xwindlndg you need a history lesson.
Why would you sign an inferior contract? For the "priveledge" of working an extra 10 years it would have cost FOs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Something anyone in the left seat even for a day at the time got absolutely free? It's not right and the majority of COS99 FOs and some captains did not sign based on principle and what most countries deem LAW(age discrimination in first world countries), not to mention loss of income.
Based officers in the USA were compensated for lost bypass pay because they were forced onto an inferior contract which, in the states, is against the law. Details were not published because of a gag clause. UK and NZ won their age discrimination cases, settlements were paid, but again no details because of a gag clause. Tells you something about how far behind HK is with labor law.
The point is, the way the company went about it was just wrong and we could'nt fight it because in Hong Kong we have weak labour laws. Some got an improvement for no cost. Others had to pay for the improvement. I don't see how that is not discrimination??
If the AOA is infact discussing age retirement 65 then they are trying to right a wrong for those members who were affected.
I fault no one for signing COS08. It worked for some people and some people it didn't.
Xwindlndg either you weren't here in 08 or you signed over. If you signed over I get it, but you should be rooting for all your colleagues to get what they are owed regardless.
If you were'nt here in 08 and you are concerned your upgrade will be delayed because a group ahead of you is awarded their legal right to work to 65, I also get it, but please be honest. When you signed did you even know some had to retire at 55? If so did you calculate your upgrade time based on how many would leave at 55? Would you have signed anyway? Anyone that leaves before 65 is simply a bonus to any junior officer because legally you can work to 65. If this were a first world country the contract your colleagues are on would be irrelevant.
Big question is....the way this company is headed, will people want to stay until 65? Very doubtful all would if they could. Even guys on the new "A" scale aren't staying to 65. I don't see that trend changing.
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All SOs/FOs should write to the AOA and tell them they don't want this negotiated. It would be the same as getting a paycut for all junior crew. Upgrades will be delayed AT LEAST 2 years.
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eggraid
you can bang on about age discrimination all you want but everyone knew the RA in their contract when they signed.
It doesn't matter what you or I say anyway, all junior guys will definitely push back against this because IT WILL BE A PAYCUT.
Forget any improvements in the TA, you would have to factor in a big delay in upgrade too.
you can bang on about age discrimination all you want but everyone knew the RA in their contract when they signed.
It doesn't matter what you or I say anyway, all junior guys will definitely push back against this because IT WILL BE A PAYCUT.
Forget any improvements in the TA, you would have to factor in a big delay in upgrade too.
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Eggraid
Everyone has become an ace wannabe lawyer in the AOA nowadays it seems.
What is right or wrong does matter. What would be wrong would be you getting bypass pay, many years of full housing and now taking money from much poorer junior crew because you changed your mind about if you should have signed over.
Everyone has become an ace wannabe lawyer in the AOA nowadays it seems.
What is right or wrong does matter. What would be wrong would be you getting bypass pay, many years of full housing and now taking money from much poorer junior crew because you changed your mind about if you should have signed over.
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Its easy actually Xwindldg - if any HKPA pilot (non command) is wanting his career in CX.
Vote NO to this contract that is coming out.
Yes we will not earn a few dollars - but CC/TB will be in force.
Then we can try put a stop to extending our command.
Proper rostering practices etc
Maybe we can get a new GC and leader in to actually try get something worth looking at.
This is the time pilots should come together and not let a few thousand dollar cloud your long term judgement. Lets shove this Sh1t back into the bullies face.
Vote NO to this contract that is coming out.
Yes we will not earn a few dollars - but CC/TB will be in force.
Then we can try put a stop to extending our command.
Proper rostering practices etc
Maybe we can get a new GC and leader in to actually try get something worth looking at.
This is the time pilots should come together and not let a few thousand dollar cloud your long term judgement. Lets shove this Sh1t back into the bullies face.
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Lessonlearnt:
"a few thousand dollars"... can I have some of what you're smoking?
An SO would easily be delayed 2 years more if this happened. Over a career that is huge! Captains will stay on average another 6 or so years, DEFO is in full swing, plus you'd now be more likely screwed out of a base if they ever happen again.
No way the company would go for it anyway because they want expensive guys gone. If it comes to a vote I can't imagine the group who is a majority voting for a major paycut either.
"a few thousand dollars"... can I have some of what you're smoking?
An SO would easily be delayed 2 years more if this happened. Over a career that is huge! Captains will stay on average another 6 or so years, DEFO is in full swing, plus you'd now be more likely screwed out of a base if they ever happen again.
No way the company would go for it anyway because they want expensive guys gone. If it comes to a vote I can't imagine the group who is a majority voting for a major paycut either.
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“Everyone who gets HKPA keep in mind the COS99ers are on full housing, have received years of bypass pay..."
Here you are banging on about how everyone should abide by their contract and leave at 55. I for one can’t wait to go at 55.
How about you stop whinging about not getting housing, bypass pay etc. YOU also chose to join on YOUR contract. So I don’t ever want to hear you whinging about HKPA raises ever again - it was never in YOUR contract that it would ever increase. Same with payment of bypass pay!
Oh that’s right, it’s only ok for Xwindldg to get an improvement to his contract, not for anyone else.
Here you are banging on about how everyone should abide by their contract and leave at 55. I for one can’t wait to go at 55.
How about you stop whinging about not getting housing, bypass pay etc. YOU also chose to join on YOUR contract. So I don’t ever want to hear you whinging about HKPA raises ever again - it was never in YOUR contract that it would ever increase. Same with payment of bypass pay!
Oh that’s right, it’s only ok for Xwindldg to get an improvement to his contract, not for anyone else.
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Hey fellow crew.... WE are in a fight for our careers!!
WE are facing a nasty intimidating huge bully!
The only way to defeat a bully is to stand toe to toe and if need be, punch them in the face.
Sure the bully might be able to punch you first and knock you down....
But it’s not so easy when there are 3000+ brothers and sisters standing right behind you having your back UNITED IN THE CAUSE..
Time to grow up!
WE are facing a nasty intimidating huge bully!
The only way to defeat a bully is to stand toe to toe and if need be, punch them in the face.
Sure the bully might be able to punch you first and knock you down....
But it’s not so easy when there are 3000+ brothers and sisters standing right behind you having your back UNITED IN THE CAUSE..
Time to grow up!
