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Industrial Peace - GMA Verbal Diarrhoea

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Industrial Peace - GMA Verbal Diarrhoea

Old 25th Oct 2018, 12:19
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Industrial Peace - GMA Verbal Diarrhoea

"In return the Company must secure a period of Industrial Peace".

According to the GMA, Industrial Peace means " the withdrawal of Industrial Action and Contract Compliance".

Can some please explain to me what "Industrial Action" we are currently undertaking that needs to be withdrawn??

And what parts of my Contract do I no longer have to Comply with? There are certain sections, like Free Reserve, that I no longer wish to comply with. Does this count?
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 12:22
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Originally Posted by betpump5 View Post
"In return the Company must secure a period of Industrial Peace".

According to the GMA, Industrial Peace means " the withdrawal of Industrial Action and Contract Compliance".
For another 0% pay rise, you want industrial peace? Good luck with that.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 14:34
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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Let me just get this straight.
We have been in industrial action for god knows how long - which is working to our contract!
Our Big Leader "the not so worthy one" DS and his minion's have been negotiating for how long.....and now we going to have go vote on a contract that has been forced onto us??

I am confused as F45K.....What are we paying our membership fee's for?? Insurance??
The GC and DS should stand up to this bully of a company and tell them to stick it.

I will never ever ever give up CC. I will take my sick days yearly and enjoy them while doing it.

There is a rumour going around on a SO group that a sick out over December will occur btw the SO's. If we don't do it, no-one will. Everyone is to busy trying to look after themselves in this airline. But SO's are tired now. LIES LIES LIES and more LIES.

CX Management have not seen anything yet.

And if there is 0% pay increase -------Its a NO from me.

Last edited by lessonlearnt; 25th Oct 2018 at 14:56.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 14:54
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The GMA has shown his cards foolishly. Proof that CC and TB is hitting them where it hurts. Simply a case of Management not wanting to lose face. Anything less then the last offer and itís a massive NO from me!
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 16:25
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That update gets funnier and funnier.
We get a diatribe about how weíre all over paid compared to the rest of the oxygen thieves in Cathay City, and then the next article asks us to help out calming passengers down if they bail us up about the IT screw up.
They still think thereís people here who give a f$&k about the joint. 🤣
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 17:26
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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It's a massive NO on principle alone from me.

But hang on, no one here has principles, so watch them sell our future down the toilet.

What an absolute joke the pilot fraternity is. Not a backbone among them. We are truly a punch line to the big MBA boys and girls upstairs and ironically one of them is the jelly fish..... I rest my case about how spineless you all are.

You watch, you will sign your life away only to see the profits roll in thick and heavy next year.

We have taken so many pineapples yet there is still room for more evidently, because that notice was a big serving of lube.

Bend over and guess what is going to be rammed where?

Good luck losers..... Let's see how stupid the pilots really are.....
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 21:17
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Be afraid, be very F'ing afraid.

Whilst I do not have stories of SOs leaving to pastures new in the next few months, I can safely say that the majority of SOs I fly with will say yes to any TA.

They just want the training ban over and get in the right seat Asap. The Non Local guys ain't here for the long run and have no loyalty to increasing the T&Cs. They want those P1 hours so they can leave. And fair enough, I get that. I don't like it, but I get it.

They heard a lot of huffing and puffing by Captains who didn't get paid 13th month. And then those very Captains did nothing. Some were even nice enough to join Training / accept promotions. And many Captains who I talk to just want the CC over so they join training and /or make G Day deals etc.

What example are they being set?

Prediction: If Chairman ( I won't present an inferior TA to the membership) DS does indeed present a TA, it will get voted through.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 23:16
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Too true betpump.
Perhaps the training ban should be dropped as a tactical move?
That way the SO gets an upgrade and the losers who want to be trainers will become trainers (and get screwed with The new train by hour pay). The rest will continue in a more cohesive group of permanent contract compliance.
As you say any TA presented will most likely get voted in anyway.
Does anyone know what the Industrial Action is that is purportedly taking place? Could it be from the company side, e.g. single reserves, no W for Bus, witholding JCR etc
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 00:23
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Not only should the vote be "NO", we should be voting "YES" for a strike over Christmas. Come on NC and GC, let's have that vote. There is no point playing the game to the company rules any longer.

Last edited by mngmt mole; 26th Oct 2018 at 00:40.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 03:06
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I'm pretty sure even the staunchest of Company people would vote NO to a 0% pay increase. Management is panicking.

The muppets at KA voted yes for 0%. Yes, we are that stupid.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 04:03
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The only reason to vote "yes" is for the very modest increase in HKPA.

Pay is zero, RPs will be a joke. Nobody will get a better roster. Even the GMA has just said the lame JCR agreement is too expensive. If we want any form of bidding, we have to make further concessions and buy it off them (yet again). Transfer by seniority, guaranteed 13th month, part-time work, SHP etc are all off the table or in the dustbin (or will be if we agree a deal and release our leverage). From what the GMA just wrote, Clause 7 is back. Clause 7 is the company's goal in all of this. It was a deal-breaker in 2016 and will remain a deal-breaker in 2018/19.

The company appear to be in quandary about ARAPA, they fear making any changes and seem to want us to buy the status quo (with higher co-pay) off them. All I can hear is the sound of the DFO kicking a can down the road.....perhaps leave him to it!!

This all brings us back to HKPA, the only tangible value in the deal. The GC should "man-up" and walk away and leave the company to sort HKPA. COS18 shows they know the present HKPA levels are below market for pilot retention. Also, in a few months the first COS18 DEFO arrives on HKPA higher than an incumbent FO and that will create resentment. (Isn't that how the GMF justified shafting the ADL cadets last week?).

The GC needs to lead this and not let the DFO run our union. I say walk away, publish the sh!t sandwich and if anyone wants to try and raise 10% of signatures to force a vote to eat some sh!t, good luck to them. Meantime the rest of us double-down on CC/TB (and perhaps add a bit more)and watch the Company sweat on whether they should impose an increase in HKPA.

Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 26th Oct 2018 at 13:32.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 07:55
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The scary thing is that DS and his minions are probably slapping each others backs saying GREAT GREAT JOB GUYS....... We have accomplished absolutely nothing mmmmm but have lost nothing.......
Chit Chat....... but we all going to look after our own interests!

Maybe its time to leave the union.... I know people will say thats what the company wants, but honestly I think thats what DS has caused. ZERO leadership. ZERO communication. ZERO benefits being a member!

Question - I am relatively new here but does the union have to present the contract from the company to us members? Or can they just say NO?
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 15:45
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Remind me why this is even going to a vote again??? If a politician did an about U turn on their number one policy they would be out of office.

We are a professional association with high standing values. At least we should keep to them. The offer is sub standard, and should be thrown back, end of.

Hold stready and see it through to the end.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 16:05
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Originally Posted by baggagecart View Post
Remind me why this is even going to a vote again??? If a politician did an about U turn on their number one policy they would be out of office.

We are a professional association with high standing values. At least we should keep to them. The offer is sub standard, and should be thrown back, end of.

Hold stready and see it through to the end.
Really, think #BREXIT, they do it every fu**** day of the week, same as here.....
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 16:22
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This represents the "Last Great Bluff" from management. The foundations of their 25+ year attack on the aircrew are crumbling, and their train is about to come off the tracks. The resignation rate is hurting them, the TB is hurting them, CC is hurting them, and the debacle of COS18 has finally pushed most fence sitting pilots in CX over the edge. They will try this last "hail mary" pass to get us to accept a completely laughable contract. It has to be a NO from everyone of us. If not, there is no career left at CX. Let that sink in. It will be over, forever. If we throw it back in their faces, and then follow up with a strike vote we will finally start the push-back that has been long needed. Don't let them take us for complete fools (again...). Time to stand up and determine whether there is a career here or not. Vote NO.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 00:47
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Spot on Dan. At what point does a sense of self-worth and dignity overcome the abuse and contempt this management has shown us? I would say that time is now. Strike vote. That would be a "YES" from me, just as my vote for the current sad excuse of an offer will be a firm "NO". Strike by Christmas. Let's get this moving.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 04:41
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There should be no voting at all, as this shouldnít be put forward before the members if not an improvement on TA16 which it isnít. Iím still amazed itís even being discussed.

unfortunately if it does go to the members we all have to waste 2 min of our precious lives hitting the NO button.

The company has achieved itís divide and conquer objectives a loooong time ago, the play book is classic and very transparent. Unfortunately some short sighted fools still fall for it. I thought I paid my membership to help protect us against this very scenario yet it appears our professional associates have given up and now wiped their hands clean by our very own Pontious Pilate.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 05:25
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At what point does a sense of self-worth and dignity overcome the abuse

I was very very surprised that COS 18 did not include a free rice cooker in appreciation for signing over...

#CXit
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 06:54
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Or 500 bucks worth of ParknRob vouchers
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 07:52
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Join Date: May 2009
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All this bravado, saying you will throw it back in their face. Are you a Captain?

Lets look at a 10yr FO. Prior to this they would be upgrading to CN about now. There are still 300+ FO's ahead of them on the seniority list to the most recently upgraded CN. I think about 4 years till their shot at CN. That is over HK$1,300,000 lost due to this, IN 4 YEARS!. Throughout their career they are behind 4 years in increments, thats about $180,000 a year, FOR THE REST OF THEIR CAREER!

All the tough talk from CN's holding out for the 3% pay rise, which won't come due to the complete lack of backbone, all the while SOs and FOs are 10s of % behind where they should be, FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREER. And you talk about looking at the long term goal?

There are two options here and honestly I will vote yes to either of them. Strike, or accept the offer. This needs to end.
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