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Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

DeFacto no longer

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Old 18th Sep 2018, 08:50
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DeFacto no longer

The Daily Apple has completed a survey that shows Hong Kong people no longer consider CX to be Hong Kong's defacto home airline and that HKA takes that title. The survey also concludes CX is considered too expat and elitest.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:26
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In 2016, RH outlined that the core of the WTW strategy was to win back the support and custom of the Hong Kong people and then reach out ( I hate that expression ) to the Pear Delta.
This has obviuosly failed ( according to the DA survey ). So if the core strategy has failed what next ?
I know more pilot pay cuts, that always works !!!!!
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:47
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Does anyone still left working here actually believe there is even a shred of hope CX will remain a viable career airline.....anyone? It's over, this latest COS has proved that. To issue that in the middle of our so called "negotiations" demonstrates just how much contempt they have for us, and just how little they care for any of us and what is important to us, our families and our careers. The only true hope any of you have for a proper career is to leave and join a more stable, rational, "sane" airline. None of the former apply to CX anymore. It is over.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:53
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No offence but if the locals can do a job without a checklist and have some sort lateral thinking, it wouldn't be so 'expat'
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 19:45
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Originally Posted by Jnr380
No offence but if the locals can do a job without a checklist and have some sort lateral thinking, it wouldn't be so 'expat'
Which nationality Pilots (or engineers) don’t use checklists? Remind me to avoid!


Last edited by Freehills; 18th Sep 2018 at 21:06.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 22:47
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A wise individual posted here quite some time ago that the corporate graveyard is full of companies that discounted a premium brand — or gave the appearance of cheapening it to the point where it lacked value.

Looks like they were right.

Disney and apple are relatively expensive. They might have sector promotions from time to time but generally do not discount. And both have been coining money.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 22:59
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Originally Posted by unitedabx
The Daily Apple has completed a survey that shows Hong Kong people no longer consider CX to be Hong Kong's defacto home airline and that HKA takes that title. The survey also concludes CX is considered too expat and elitest.
A while back an editor from the newspaper couldn’t get a free upgrade into J class and the newspaper has been bitching about the service, apparently lazy and overpaid cockpit crew and airline in general ever since.

Go figure.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 23:13
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Originally Posted by Slasher1
A wise individual posted here quite some time ago that the corporate graveyard is full of companies that discounted a premium brand — or gave the appearance of cheapening it to the point where it lacked value.

Looks like they were right.

Disney and apple are relatively expensive. They might have sector promotions from time to time but generally do not discount. And both have been coining money.
Disney and Apple don't really have the same kind of competition as an airline does. Ok, there are far better phones than Apple if you don't mind shopping around China, but Apple otherwise hold a tight privileged spot in much of the 1st world, and people tend to trust their brand.

In the airline world like CX Vs HX, most people fly economy anyways. Long haul flights are rarely pleasant, and when the delivery between airlines are more or less the same, people will flock to the cheaper option. Expecially when the more expensive option doesn't really excel at anything.

I think the prominent selling point for CX used to be exceptional service and excellent safety. The prominent problem is that in cost-cutting, they chip away at those selling points to the point that they just become any other airline... At a premium price. I think the cause of the problem is managers become too myopic of the bottom line to really care about what their consumers value.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 05:30
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Originally Posted by Freehills


Which nationality Pilots (or engineers) don’t use checklists? Remind me to avoid!

I Didn't say a pilot's job, I said 'a' job.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 09:02
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Im still here...serious🤷🏿*♂️
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 03:35
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" I think the cause of the problem is managers become too myopic of the bottom line to really care about what their consumers value."

They only care about how much profit they can suck out of the company at the top of the pyramid, same as all the other HK Hongs. "Consumer Value" is secondary if that !
CX (Swires) have spent decades designing this Money Maker and the last 20 years on how to rid it of that pesky noun called Profit. They have succeeded.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 07:33
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Originally Posted by Flex88
" I think the cause of the problem is managers become too myopic of the bottom line to really care about what their consumers value."

They only care about how much profit they can suck out of the company at the top of the pyramid, same as all the other HK Hongs. "Consumer Value" is secondary if that !
CX (Swires) have spent decades designing this Money Maker and the last 20 years on how to rid it of that pesky noun called Profit. They have succeeded.
Whist small consolation, it is something that has infected 'management' in industries the world over.
Problematic is that decision makers are invariably MBA types.

MBA originated in the United States in the early 20th century when the country industrialized and companies sought scientific approaches to management. The core courses in an MBA program cover various areas of business such as accounting, applied statistics, business communication, business ethics, business law, finance, managerial economics, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and operations in a manner most relevant to management analysis and strategy.
As the more astute may notice, there is no mention that the 'candidate' be necessarily experienced in any particular industry. Indeed the MBA was 'designed' for wide appeal: It mattered little which company or industry, the MBA graduate could run any industry.
There is nothing 'scientific' about that, designed for mass appeal the programs were 'franchised' the world over and the parasite consequently wreaks havoc in many industries.
The dysfunction is readily evident all over the western world.

In a business that can kill many hundreds of people at a time, it is argued that experience matters.
Go and sit in an MBA class and watch 'the smartest in the room' in action.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 10:03
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I always understood MBA to stand for Master Bull**** Artist...
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 15:43
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When everything is a widget and all that matters is the accounting, an MBA is the perfect solution. My question is... Who in their right mind thinks running an airline is like producing widgets? Or Coca-Cola for that matter? The Swires aren’t ingenuitive. They just have a huge first mover advantage dating back hundreds of years (70 plus years in CX).

Last edited by cxorcist; 30th Sep 2018 at 17:19.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 23:54
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Originally Posted by Frank W. Abagnale
Sell the airline.

D-Scale might be the final desperate attempt to turn the ship around.
More letters left before they reach the bottom
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 01:12
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Originally Posted by swh


More letters left before they reach the bottom
Not for me.

I might not be able to keep the bus driver from taking the bus off the cliff but I can dang sure not go on the ride with him.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 09:10
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Originally Posted by cxorcist
When everything is a widget and all that matters is the accounting, an MBA is the perfect solution. My question is... Who in their right mind thinks running an airline is like producing widgets? Or Coca-Cola for that matter? The Swires aren’t ingenuitve. They just have a huge first mover advantage dating back hundreds of years (70 plus years in CX).
Uuummm... ingenuitive?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 17:14
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Originally Posted by Slasher1


Not for me.

I might not be able to keep the bus driver from taking the bus off the cliff but I can dang sure not go on the ride with him.
Great! When will you resign? CA bases might have a chance once you’re gone...
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 17:18
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Originally Posted by Kitsune

Uuummm... ingenuitive?
Adjective relating to the noun ingenuity. Can you do the math or do you insist upon queen’s English?
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Old 1st Oct 2018, 00:31
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Originally Posted by cxorcist


Great! When will you resign? CA bases might have a chance once you’re gone...
Sorry to disappoint you but my follow on career will most definitely not be serving on the CA state legislature. Or any other legislature anywhere for that matter. Or even as a judge.

If you haven’t figured out that there won’t be any more basings anywhere I feel sorry for you.
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