Letter from the DFO
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Raven did you really expect anything different from this individual ? It fits in perfectly with his character , he is only in this for everything that he can get out of it . If that entails walking over some or all of you so be it .
I have absolutely no idea why he was picked for this position , actually I do , it’s because he spent years brown nosing everyone he could . From the pilots perspective,he is the worst possible choice and I suspect that the board will regret this decision in a very short time frame . Unfortunately this is how they want to run this airline with threats , coercion , and intimidation . For management it’s no longer working , this is not the 80’s or 90’s when jobs were in short supply , there are dozens of well paying jobs out there for experienced pilots who are taking advantage of this and leaving in ever increasing numbers .
Experience cannot be put on a balance sheet , so accountants simply ignore it , but it can make the difference between an incident and a smoking hole in the ground.
This airline can no longer afford to maintain its current attrition rate , but until the management convinces the board that this current policy will result in the destruction of a once Great airline , nothing will change
I have absolutely no idea why he was picked for this position , actually I do , it’s because he spent years brown nosing everyone he could . From the pilots perspective,he is the worst possible choice and I suspect that the board will regret this decision in a very short time frame . Unfortunately this is how they want to run this airline with threats , coercion , and intimidation . For management it’s no longer working , this is not the 80’s or 90’s when jobs were in short supply , there are dozens of well paying jobs out there for experienced pilots who are taking advantage of this and leaving in ever increasing numbers .
Experience cannot be put on a balance sheet , so accountants simply ignore it , but it can make the difference between an incident and a smoking hole in the ground.
This airline can no longer afford to maintain its current attrition rate , but until the management convinces the board that this current policy will result in the destruction of a once Great airline , nothing will change
KA has 500 pilots. The attrition budget for this year is 24 according to the guys paying attention at fleet forums. So 5%. The quota was near met by this month so next year I'm assuming it will go up a few incremental %. This would have sent shock waves and fix-it money a few years ago so perhaps this is the way of the future?
If CX is anywhere near 5% and you are in a rigid CC scenario with a training ban, a train wreck is inevitable unless you are deliberately contracting? KA isn't picking up your slack evidenced by the standing-down of training captains to achieve a bonus ( I mean budget ).
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Dear Chris
I don't expect much from you and you haven't disappointed me with your DFO Update.
HKPA might have been almost acceptable for inexperienced pilots joining CX when it was introduced but the housing market has moved a long way since then. A good starting point would be to double it or drop it entirely and give ARAPA to all.
The way CX is being mis-managed there is no point '...to focus on the future...' as there isn't one for the company as a whole. The only 'future' many of your pilots have is their next job. I will 'dwell on the past' until past injustices are made right.
If 'our pilots remain a highly valued asset' treat them as such. The conditions are not good enough, the attrition rate proves that. 13 month pay anyone?
I firmly believe that we will crash an aeroplane and kill hundreds of people because of the pilot employment and training policies the company management have adopted as you strive to drive down costs and get their bonuses. Your statements re Haddon-Cave are simply wrong.
There is no industrial action. I and most others are simply working in compliance with our contracts.
I am not proud to be a part of this airline.
I don't expect much from you and you haven't disappointed me with your DFO Update.
HKPA might have been almost acceptable for inexperienced pilots joining CX when it was introduced but the housing market has moved a long way since then. A good starting point would be to double it or drop it entirely and give ARAPA to all.
The way CX is being mis-managed there is no point '...to focus on the future...' as there isn't one for the company as a whole. The only 'future' many of your pilots have is their next job. I will 'dwell on the past' until past injustices are made right.
If 'our pilots remain a highly valued asset' treat them as such. The conditions are not good enough, the attrition rate proves that. 13 month pay anyone?
I firmly believe that we will crash an aeroplane and kill hundreds of people because of the pilot employment and training policies the company management have adopted as you strive to drive down costs and get their bonuses. Your statements re Haddon-Cave are simply wrong.
There is no industrial action. I and most others are simply working in compliance with our contracts.
I am not proud to be a part of this airline.
So if resignations are no big deal why even mention it?
Like traf has mentioned we on the line can see first hand what’s going on in the trenches and the outward steady flow of 5% of crews every year is...
”no big deal”!!?
Just who is it that’s leaving?
Overwhelmingly First Officers.
Just replacing them is a huge expense but we’re also seeing our Command candidates walk out.
Its not just a simple matter of percentages .. it’s a massive strain on training staff.
Budgeted for it? What an inane childish statement.
If you fixed the fundamental problems... as you have promised so many times in the past to do.. you wouldn’t need to budget at all right?
Like traf has mentioned we on the line can see first hand what’s going on in the trenches and the outward steady flow of 5% of crews every year is...
”no big deal”!!?
Just who is it that’s leaving?
Overwhelmingly First Officers.
Just replacing them is a huge expense but we’re also seeing our Command candidates walk out.
Its not just a simple matter of percentages .. it’s a massive strain on training staff.
Budgeted for it? What an inane childish statement.
If you fixed the fundamental problems... as you have promised so many times in the past to do.. you wouldn’t need to budget at all right?
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Ridiculous
The SO on recent flight is leaving in 5 weeks.
The issue isn’t just replacing experienced pilots,
It is replacing “an inexperienced pilot”.
just pathetic
#Notproudofcx
The issue isn’t just replacing experienced pilots,
It is replacing “an inexperienced pilot”.
just pathetic
#Notproudofcx
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Now that recruitment has changed hands I've no doubt that's the way we are headed. Luckily the C&T chaps will all rigorously maintain the current standards. If pressured to do otherwise I'm sure they'd all resign. Wait a minute...
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Or the C&T heros could write another letter. Last one really made the company take note.
Ah Tappinghead that reminds me of something in the past. Talking with the then DFO some 10-15 years ago he said that the company were looking into recruiting from the developing world, particularly the Indian sub-continent. I advised him that at that time a pilot resigning from an Indian airline to join a foreign airline would have his passport rescinded by the Indian government, which was news to him. He suggested other countries.
My written reply to him, for his guidance, quoting Adam Smith on division of labour and pin making included the phrase, "this is why you do not go to Nigeria for your banking nor Bangladesh for your dentistry."
To be fair he stuck to the first (-ish) world for aircrew. It seems that the currrent mob need a little education from Adam Smith again...
My written reply to him, for his guidance, quoting Adam Smith on division of labour and pin making included the phrase, "this is why you do not go to Nigeria for your banking nor Bangladesh for your dentistry."
To be fair he stuck to the first (-ish) world for aircrew. It seems that the currrent mob need a little education from Adam Smith again...
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They looked to India within the last year or so. Of the 30 they interviewed they offered one a job (the rest either had doubtful logbook times or couldn't fly the sim). The one they offered the job to turned CX down. Package not good enough.
People department might be less selective, but still doesn't solve the package problem. Why would anyone come to CX to log years of P2X whilst not living on the HKPA???
People department might be less selective, but still doesn't solve the package problem. Why would anyone come to CX to log years of P2X whilst not living on the HKPA???
While we’re on the topic of ‘budgeting’...
Just imagine for a moment how life would be if the the shoe were on the other foot. Imagine the crews behaving the way the company does. Asking for massive increases in pay and benefits every year. Abusing the system by taking maximum sick leave every year in accordance with the contracts. Refusing absolutely to ever fly on a G day and walking away from the plane the minute the duty hours expired. Never allowing the travesty of A,O and EXB and free reserve to exist and refusing duty changes given on arrival or at dispatch. Never accepting route shortcuts expeditious climbs or single engine taxi. Flatly refusing to negotiate unless a tit for tat demand is met and then reneging on any agreed deals. In short don’t they realize how much damage is avoided by the continuance of ‘good will’ ? Having the staff screw them at every turn, constantly, every year because that in effect is what they’ve been doing for the last 25 years at least.
To top it off throw in a good measure of simply lying about things. Imagine being sued by a bunch of instructors from Adelaide over outright lies and promises .. breach of contract.. losing the lawsuit (inevitably) and then employing a bunch of crew who despise you from day one!!!!
These ridiculous missives from the DFO or anyone else just serve to humiliate themselves... sprouting off the same old tired worn out phrases the previous management waffled on about. The world already knows what a nest of vipers they are.
Just digging a bigger hole for themselves methinks.
Threats and abuse with no clear plan to address the issues... what’s new? Yawwwwwwwnnn!!
The gormless DFO ,despite murdering any semblance of dress sense , seriously looks like he’s waiting for his next thought to arrive 😜
Just imagine for a moment how life would be if the the shoe were on the other foot. Imagine the crews behaving the way the company does. Asking for massive increases in pay and benefits every year. Abusing the system by taking maximum sick leave every year in accordance with the contracts. Refusing absolutely to ever fly on a G day and walking away from the plane the minute the duty hours expired. Never allowing the travesty of A,O and EXB and free reserve to exist and refusing duty changes given on arrival or at dispatch. Never accepting route shortcuts expeditious climbs or single engine taxi. Flatly refusing to negotiate unless a tit for tat demand is met and then reneging on any agreed deals. In short don’t they realize how much damage is avoided by the continuance of ‘good will’ ? Having the staff screw them at every turn, constantly, every year because that in effect is what they’ve been doing for the last 25 years at least.
To top it off throw in a good measure of simply lying about things. Imagine being sued by a bunch of instructors from Adelaide over outright lies and promises .. breach of contract.. losing the lawsuit (inevitably) and then employing a bunch of crew who despise you from day one!!!!
These ridiculous missives from the DFO or anyone else just serve to humiliate themselves... sprouting off the same old tired worn out phrases the previous management waffled on about. The world already knows what a nest of vipers they are.
Just digging a bigger hole for themselves methinks.
Threats and abuse with no clear plan to address the issues... what’s new? Yawwwwwwwnnn!!
The gormless DFO ,despite murdering any semblance of dress sense , seriously looks like he’s waiting for his next thought to arrive 😜
GH blessed us with his presence at a fleet forum dressed in casual attire with a rock t-shirt that had “C**T” written on it.
His statement at the fleet forum directly contradicts his underlings email, he said the turnover of pilots was unsustainable.
His statement at the fleet forum directly contradicts his underlings email, he said the turnover of pilots was unsustainable.
These guys couldn’t lie straight in bed!!
For all the multitudes of meetings they have you think they could at least get their story straight.
Amateurs the lot of them. On the eve of destruction of the airline they’re still struggling to recognize the problem let alone a cure.
For all the multitudes of meetings they have you think they could at least get their story straight.
Amateurs the lot of them. On the eve of destruction of the airline they’re still struggling to recognize the problem let alone a cure.
Experience levels have not changed!!!! Aparently there was a Cathay Management muppet handing out flyers to get your license and apply to CX, in Flight Experience in the mall, Darling Harbour. TTW
Where not hard up for Crew, join the CX crčche
Where not hard up for Crew, join the CX crčche
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Another question: do our main competitors (BA/QF/LH/AF/DL/AA etc...) experience anywhere near that percentage of resignations? I seriously doubt it. In fact, almost NOBODY in those airlines resigns for reasons other than health related........Your comment regarding our "package" being above industry standard is laughable, when you are talking about people living in the most expensive city on earth. If it's so competitive, explain how my nephew with BA (25 yrs old ) has just purchased his own HOUSE in a suburb of London, and owns two cars, wife not having to work)
On the first point, plenty of junior captains are leaving BA right now to go back to their LCC’s. Junior Long Haul FOs jumping ship too to go to KLM, Virgin and elsewhere. BA is no utopia nowadays, even when compared to Cathay. With the new CEO taking position, Air France pilots must be readying themselves for a sizeable dispute with management regarding pay and conditions. Conclusion? It’s crap everywhere now mate, quite how we’ve got into this position with a shortage going on I don’t know but we must as a pilot community capitalise on it as best we can
Last edited by RexBanner; 18th Aug 2018 at 20:09.
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Sure mate, you tell me what my nephew is or isn't doing (and I don't recall mentioning anything about how much he had to spend..., or where his money came from). I'm sure he would be much better off in CX, with the worlds most expensive city to cope with, with a wife and children. I'm sure Botswana has given you all the context you need to be authoritative on the subject.... 
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Valid points though - without Bank of Mum and Dad unlikely a 25 year old would have a house.
Only 20% of people 25-34 own property in London. Was 47% 20 years ago
And the BA threads on this site do have lots of discussion how for some people LCC is a better deal, so they do leave
Of course, HK has worse problem than London on housing, and the fact that LCC are competitive with BA is a good thing - more choices of where to go rather than limit to flag carriers
Only 20% of people 25-34 own property in London. Was 47% 20 years ago
And the BA threads on this site do have lots of discussion how for some people LCC is a better deal, so they do leave
Of course, HK has worse problem than London on housing, and the fact that LCC are competitive with BA is a good thing - more choices of where to go rather than limit to flag carriers
Last edited by Freehills; 19th Aug 2018 at 03:02.
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Sure mate, you tell me what my nephew is or isn't doing (and I don't recall mentioning anything about how much he had to spend..., or where his money came from). I'm sure he would be much better off in CX, with the worlds most expensive city to cope with, with a wife and children. I'm sure Botswana has given you all the context you need to be authoritative on the subject....
STP
