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CX to decide if youíre really sick.

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CX to decide if youíre really sick.

Old 20th Jul 2018, 16:34
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CX to decide if youíre really sick.

In the climate of greater, if not excessive, touchy freely comms from management, a somewhat anonymous missive, totally lacking in ownership, landed in pilotsí inbox, today.

24 hours after a conspicuously silent and dreary FOP weekly update, the new draconian - and discriminatory, since it only applies to HK and NZ flight crew (other jurisdictions cannot be trounced quite so easily) - revision of the Noticed of Revised Sick Leave Policy has been declared.

Letís not beat around the bush and letís communicate frankly: you pilots are pulling fake sickies, is the only, very unsubtle message conveyed by the author(s) of this cack, oppressive unexplained change in policy.

From day 1 of your injury, sickness or incapacity, your priority within 24 hours, is to self-diagnose your predicament or ailment or make damn sure a medical professional can attend to you and do so on your behalf, without condition, especially if you fall ill outside Hong Kong, and communicate the same to Our Dear Leaders.

Failure to do so is not spelt out in this gash revised policy, just so that the implicit disciplinary threat hovers ever so slightly closer over you.

A spineless, impractical document, if ever one was conceived by over excitable incumbents of new managerial positions.

It makes me sick.

Can I self-certify for that?
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 18:00
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CX pilots brag here and elsewhere about how they are going to call in sick and stick it to the company. Then the company says they are going to verify sick calls.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you...

Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
The simplest answer is often the best.
Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post

We do what we should have done in December.

Just go sick.


Originally Posted by FUANNA View Post
Massive FO sick-out today.
Originally Posted by FUANNA View Post

Itís starting.


Originally Posted by checklistcomplete View Post
Just got my 10 day sick note with a review for another 20 to come.
Originally Posted by checklistcomplete View Post
Happy Christmas CX.


Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
For many, many years now I have targeted long, inefficient patterns for roster adjustment. There are multiple ways to do this. One is the old fashioned sick call, but another is a well-timed ASR-F.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 20:53
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Another one to add to the list Darryl. Regardless of what sh1te is on the table, Big NO vote from me with the current & updated AMP.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 21:23
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Just makes me want to hurt them more (and send a big welcome to the new GMA who i suspect is behind this). Havent gone sick in a while but i am now. Any doubts what needs to happen everyone?

(and I concur, a NO vote from me as well)

Last edited by mngmt mole; 20th Jul 2018 at 23:18.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 21:38
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Amazing they want a doctor's note from day 1 if not in hkg. In any 1st world country if your sick, and a pilot, the Dr will be very cautious and probably ask, how long do you need Off!
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 22:24
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Diarrhea is a common problem after consuming food from unhygienic origin. It can put a professional pilot unfit to fly any aeroplane for up to 3 days. Photograph and video evidence are available on request.

Self certification completed
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 23:22
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This reeks of desperation. I take comfort in the fact that they are obviously so panicked, they are now resorting to patently self-damaging strategies. Also, anyone notice that the Boeing Chief Pilot says in the latest newsletter that you can't call in unfit after you have been called out for a duty off standby? Hmmm, let me think about that? I am on the train to start my callout duty, and I feel unwell by the time I get to the airport. I'm just supposed to now operate unfit. I think this suggestion from management has a putrid stink of illegality. AOA, what is your take on that? This company is in the final stages of meltdown. I'm getting some fresh popcorn and will sit down and watch the show.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 23:45
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So, more reports are going to help FOP contribute to the profitability of the company? The only change I see is more paper (electrons) work. No problem.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 23:52
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Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard View Post
This reeks of desperation. I take comfort in the fact that they are obviously so panicked, they are now resorting to patently self-damaging strategies. Also, anyone notice that the Boeing Chief Pilot says in the latest newsletter that you can't call in unfit after you have been called out for a duty off standby? Hmmm, let me think about that? I am on the train to start my callout duty, and I feel unwell by the time I get to the airport. I'm just supposed to now operate unfit. I think this suggestion from management has a putrid stink of illegality. AOA, what is your take on that? This company is in the final stages of meltdown. I'm getting some fresh popcorn and will sit down and watch the show.
Exactly correct ATY! All of these ďsickiesĒ or PRAs are only necessary as a result of a badly broken rostering system. If they want sickness rates to go down, bring in 21st century scheduling which honors seniority and stop treating everyone like they are on reserve all the time. Itís pretty obvious really. For the record, a pattern optimizer is not a comprehensive scheduling system. There are two more pieces which benefit pilots as well as the Company. We donít hear much about those these days. Perhaps thereís a reason for that?!?!
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:15
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On just about EVERY level, this company and it's policies towards aircrew are BROKEN. Almost beyond repair. If the new management do not realise the precipice that the pilot staffing situation is teetering on, they will quickly be subject to a rude awakening. This change to the sickness policy will play out one way. Even more sickness will eventually result. Why?, because more of us will quite this pathetic airline in disgust, thereby placing an even greater burden on the remaining pilots, who will then be subject to even more chaotic rostering, resulting in even more sickness. It's called a "death spiral" for a reason. This truly is the company appearing like a one-legged matador, waving their red flag to the enraged bull (pilots). The outcome is not in doubt.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:23
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It seems that CX management are the only management in the industry who haven't figured out they will soon be critically short of pilots. They also don't seem to have figure out that the industrial advantage has swung firmly in favor of the pilots. I suspect the length of the weekly newsletter will grow, due to the very long list of resigning pilots they will have to type up each week.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:35
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Apple tree

They also don't seem to have figure out that the industrial advantage has swung firmly in favor of the pilots.
I want to pose your statement to Us pilots and the AOA. Who among my colleagues is going to vote Yes because of a 1.75% pay rise or a couple of thousand on HKPA? Or a 1 year rolling extension to ARAPA? Or an RP that has changes "to the language of O and R days?

​​​​​​We will never ever be in a better industrial than we are now - What will we do with that advantage? If I leave Cathay Pacific, it won't be because of the Company or the stench of the Fragrant Harbour from my 400sqft room. It will be because my fellow pilots rolled over and consented to an anal shafting.

Time for the Chairman to show real leadership.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:59
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Yesterday, my wife booked a doctor's appointment for her mother in the UK. First one available - August 3rd! So what should you do if you need an sick note. Go sick for two weeks while waiting, even though you were better days ago?

General Practioners in the UK are in such short supply, sick notes can be issue by e-mail on self certification. Also, many cases are now being seen by practice Nurses. Are these acceptable, or do you need to see a doctor?
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 04:41
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Sick Notice ?

The jellyfish rolls over on almost day 1.. His management style to a T.

Just wait for the CMP fiasco to pan out.

Time To Win !!!
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 04:55
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Oh well... just go and see a GP now for a every little illness which would have disappeared within a day or two, and get a proper sickness certificate for a week or longer - just to make sure you're cured. What they are implementing now defies the purpose 100%.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 05:13
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Ppppffffftttttttt! What a joke.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 05:57
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Anybody who thought the Jellyfish will be any different, has their answer very quickly. A heavy handed and ill-considered policy announced late on a Friday evening. We have all seen that movie before and we all know how it ends.

So long as you are in an English-speaking country, it's not difficult to get a Doctor's certificate. So apart from adding to the company's medical bills, this should have no impact for pilots that have their stuff together.

Had an interesting experience a few weeks back. Took a tumble whilst out running when on leave in the UK. Strained my quad. Not too bad, thought it would be 4-7 days and back running again. Was supposed to head back to work, but couldn't put any weight on the damaged quad, so thought it best to go sick. Saw my friendly doc in Manchester, who referred me to an equally friendly physio. Sent in the documents to the company and enquired if the "injury" meant my licence was suspended and would I need an MCQ. "Yes" was the answer. I had a duty on a Saturday and aimed to fly that duty. Doctor's don't work weekends, so first available appointment is Monday afternoon. Another 3 days off work, but managed to get some good rehab on the quad hiking up The Peak. I see the Company Doc who wants some details from the Doctor in Manchester. The next 7 days sees a big pointless and expensive paper chasing exercise.

The net result, if I could have self-certified I would have been off work 4 days. Following the Company's procedure cost about $3k in medical and 2 weeks off work. Did I care?-no. Did Corporate Medical care?-No. In fact both myself and Corporate Medical agreed the policy is stupid and neither party was particularly motivated to make it work.

Time to win?
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 09:09
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If my memory serves me correctly , they tried this once before , it was abandoned after the medical bills to comply with the new rules went through the roof .
It’s not difficult , if you don’t feel well go to a doctor , even in HK you can’t always get to a GP on the same day, so what are you supposed to do ? . If the company is coming down hard on you . File a report directly with the CAD bypass Cathay management entirely .
Alternatively print out a preformatted letter stating the CAD position pertaining to operating an aircraft whilst unfit . Go to chief pilot explaining that you do not feel competent to operate an aircraft , but if they insist that you must operate then they have to sign your letter acknowledging that you have informed them of your condition and they are forcing you to operate irrespective .
‘I really don’t see too many letters being signed .
My GP tends to err on the side of caution, so whilst I might take a week off for a bad cold he would always give me an extra few days on top just to be sure .
Or go to the GP get a few days off , go back for a few more days off , and a third time to ensure that you are fully fit
multiply that by 3000 pilots and watch the bills for medical visits expand exponentially
what the hell why don’t 60-80% of Pilots just go and see the Doc for a chat , explain the situation and confirm that you can come and see them whenever it’s necessary
2500x800 average doctor fee = 2 Million . That should get their attention

Last edited by oriental flyer; 21st Jul 2018 at 11:29.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 09:18
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They just want you to log into intra CX so they can see where you really are.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 10:06
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Can you post the actual missive?

that way we can decide if it's out of order or just much the same as many other outfits - mine requires a medical note after 3 days........
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