Emirates coming to town..THEY WANT YOU!!
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All too true, in the previous reality. However, the situation has now drastically changed and EK recognize they risk collapse if they cant retain and recruit pilots. The old ways wont work anymore. Only the airlines with management that quickly recognize that will ultimately survive.
short flights long nights
EK should have realised this years ago. But arrogance and hubris did not let them do it then...and it wont let them do it now. Had they honored my contact..as it was written and the one I signed..I would still be there. And if any one going from CX to EK believes what they tell you at the road shows, what they tell you when you join...its all smoke and mirrors. And remember...you are bonded for 5 years...
mngmt mole if what you say is true why did they insult us with the "pay rise"? We've heard stories of things improving for years however this is the management that just introduced three man LRV flights. When they got caught out they then claimed we all misunderstood them and it was only an idea after taking guys off line and threatening them with demotion/firing for expressing concerns with their plans. That doesn't sound like a company that is worried about people leaving. Couple that with the fact that the acting DVSP FOP has openly said he's not worried about retention and more about recruitment and I'm not really sure where you think that they are now at panic mode. No one who has left recently has been asked what could be done to get them to stay so like others have said ill believe it when I see it. In the mean time their arrogance and hubris will continue unabated.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a characteristic of hubris and arrogance to pretend that the crisis isn't real, until the situation suddenly is catastrophic. We are experiencing exactly the same scenario here at CX, a management that continues to believe the circumstances are no different than 15 yrs ago (oh, other than an ever increasing rate of resignations, an operation that is falling apart, and an inability to attract new applicants). Let them continue with their self-delusion, as very soon their ability to explain away all the parked aircraft will be sorely tested. The aircrew for both EK and CX only need to purchase some popcorn, get settled in a comfy chair and watch the approaching chaos with glee.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Discussion with long time friend, now management on the 380 EK. To wit:
- senior management in crisis, as Sheik M has made it known that they MUST do whatever it takes to staff and operate the airline properly
- effectively 450 - 500 pilots short, and getting worse by the week
- effectively 45+ aircraft parked, either actually, or virtually due reduced daily utilization
- resignation rate now critical, as pilots have other options (hello Anna...)
- basing not happening at EK (legal and practical reasons, hello CX), BUT commuter rosters are being constructed and about to be introduced (hello Anna)
- increase in pay package (hello Anna)
- increase in leave blocks (hello Anna)
- other sweetness to make EK the 'Best' airline to work for in ME
Overall, he told me that they will no longer allow themselves to be compromised, as the amount of money necessary to keep the pilots happy is FAR less (hello Anna) than that being cost by parked aircraft and uncontrollable training cost (hello Anna). Take that, as well as much quicker time to command and you have a better career option than CX. A much better one.
- senior management in crisis, as Sheik M has made it known that they MUST do whatever it takes to staff and operate the airline properly
- effectively 450 - 500 pilots short, and getting worse by the week
- effectively 45+ aircraft parked, either actually, or virtually due reduced daily utilization
- resignation rate now critical, as pilots have other options (hello Anna...)
- basing not happening at EK (legal and practical reasons, hello CX), BUT commuter rosters are being constructed and about to be introduced (hello Anna)
- increase in pay package (hello Anna)
- increase in leave blocks (hello Anna)
- other sweetness to make EK the 'Best' airline to work for in ME
Overall, he told me that they will no longer allow themselves to be compromised, as the amount of money necessary to keep the pilots happy is FAR less (hello Anna) than that being cost by parked aircraft and uncontrollable training cost (hello Anna). Take that, as well as much quicker time to command and you have a better career option than CX. A much better one.
- increase in pay package (hello Anna)- strange they didn't increase it in the latest EK pay reviews why would they now a month later?
- increase in leave blocks (hello Anna) - Really??? Short of pilots yet increased leave, doesn't really add up that one does it.
- other sweetness to make EK the 'Best' airline to work for in ME - like what for example? 3 man ULR flights?
Don't believe what your long-term management friend tells you. The guys on the shop floor will tell you a completely different story.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Felix. I have no insight as to your managements thinking (other than I hope it's more sensible than ours), but I think that your frustration and anger is a good reason to suspect that your management had better start improving thing quickly. Like many of our pilots who are leaving, there are better options out there for yours as well, and nothing short of a revolutionary change in management mindset will stop the collapse, either there or here. Best wishes for the future. MM
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cost of satisfying crew expectations:
Approx $400,000 usd / day.
Cost of a few parked 777 / 380’s:
Approx $1,500,000 usd / day
Cost of deluded and arrogant management:
In Cx case (fuel hedging). Approx $3,000,000 usd / day (sickening and absurd but true).
Conclusion: A decades long fight with their aircrew and saving $400,000 usd /day (and their “face”) is more important than the other $4,500,000 / day that they are squandering to win (!) the smaller battle.
And you wonder why the pilots are leaving in droves.
Approx $400,000 usd / day.
Cost of a few parked 777 / 380’s:
Approx $1,500,000 usd / day
Cost of deluded and arrogant management:
In Cx case (fuel hedging). Approx $3,000,000 usd / day (sickening and absurd but true).
Conclusion: A decades long fight with their aircrew and saving $400,000 usd /day (and their “face”) is more important than the other $4,500,000 / day that they are squandering to win (!) the smaller battle.
And you wonder why the pilots are leaving in droves.
Last edited by mngmt mole; 5th Jun 2018 at 10:31.
Cost of satisfying crew expectations:
Approx $400,000 usd / day.
Cost of a few parked 777 / 380’s:
Approx $1,500,000 usd / day
Approx $400,000 usd / day.
Cost of a few parked 777 / 380’s:
Approx $1,500,000 usd / day
That is the retarded punitive logic that exists at EK.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep. Mgmt mole - if EK or CX thought logically, neither of them would have pilots leaving in droves. Wishful thinking that either will change in near future, at the moment going form one to the other looks like a frying pan/ fire situation
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freehills, CX and EK are following the tedious, time worn path of many other legacy airlines before them (PanAm, Eastern, TWA, Monarch etc). We all know the outcome of that don't we? Of course, there are management lackeys like MorningCoffee who are desperate to pretend that all is fine at CX, and that having Captains resign to become SO's at other airlines is completely normal in the industry (!). CX will obviously have to learn the hard way, that times have changed, and pilots don't have to subject themselves to disrespect, penury and abuse. We all have much better options, and as more leave, more WILL leave. MC can type all he wants to the contrary, the facts will soon establish themselves with this airline, and probably EK. The days of the tyrannical airline management have come to an end, and it's only a question whether the airlines they are managing will end with them. Jury is out.
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What pilots ought consider is the message it sends airline management. The cartel may well be turning on each other.
Many insiders can detail the quiet no compete deals airlines strike with each other, to limit poaching. IATA conferences are full of such chats...
Interestingly, as globalisation actually works for pilots with a demographic and structural shortage evident all over the globe this 'drive' suggests that EK are well aware of the discontent at CX and notwithstanding the many shortcomings of life in the dystopian nightmare of UAE, EK are prepared to target competitors strategic asset base; their pilots.
Many insiders can detail the quiet no compete deals airlines strike with each other, to limit poaching. IATA conferences are full of such chats...
Interestingly, as globalisation actually works for pilots with a demographic and structural shortage evident all over the globe this 'drive' suggests that EK are well aware of the discontent at CX and notwithstanding the many shortcomings of life in the dystopian nightmare of UAE, EK are prepared to target competitors strategic asset base; their pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rated De - The CEO absolutely does not consider the flight crew as an “asset base”. On the contrary, they are a liability which has to be managed within tight cost restrictions. He is content that pilot resignations are within acceptable levels and he is content to see all that experience and ,more importantly, the money involved in training those pilots, just walk out the door to join competitors.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the fact that EK is having a roadshow IN Hong Kong says all you need to know about how "other" airline managements view the impending crewing crisis, and in particular, how they are now well aware of the discontent at CX. As for pilots "walking" out the door. How about "running" out the door? That seems a more accurate description of what is happening at CX. As a friend (another Captain) told me yesterday, his FO of the day before, on his way to QF said, "once I received the job offer, it felt like an elephant had been lifted off my shoulders". Oh, and his wife gave him his first (insert two letters) in 3 years! (quote).
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair enough. At least you can get a reasonably quick command at HKA. Or, you can rot as an SO for 5+ years at CX, and then maybe a Command another 10 years after that. Of course, you will have been committed to a psych ward long before that working for the most dysfunctional airline in this hemisphere.
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rated De - The CEO absolutely does not consider the flight crew as an “asset base”. On the contrary, they are a liability which has to be managed within tight cost restrictions. He is content that pilot resignations are within acceptable levels and he is content to see all that experience and ,more importantly, the money involved in training those pilots, just walk out the door to join competitors.
A certain CEO south of Hong Kong has a carefully 'crafted' story regarding his love of aviation. Apparently it was eyesight that stopped him being a pilot, when the fact is well before an ophthalmologist could have tapped in on the shoulder, failed Aptitude testing did. The shoulders these days carry two chips!
(bonus points for guessing the second one!)
The point being is that without pilots, Operating Revenue is pretty hard to come by. All those fancy jets sitting in the sand in Dubai on static display are a rather costly 'theme park' without pilots.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(Hello Anna) ?
Discussion with long time friend, now management on the 380 EK. To wit:
- senior management in crisis, as Sheik M has made it known that they MUST do whatever it takes to staff and operate the airline properly
- effectively 450 - 500 pilots short, and getting worse by the week
- effectively 45+ aircraft parked, either actually, or virtually due reduced daily utilization
- resignation rate now critical, as pilots have other options (hello Anna...)
- basing not happening at EK (legal and practical reasons, hello CX), BUT commuter rosters are being constructed and about to be introduced (hello Anna)
- increase in pay package (hello Anna)
- increase in leave blocks (hello Anna)
- other sweetness to make EK the 'Best' airline to work for in ME
Overall, he told me that they will no longer allow themselves to be compromised, as the amount of money necessary to keep the pilots happy is FAR less (hello Anna) than that being cost by parked aircraft and uncontrollable training cost (hello Anna). Take that, as well as much quicker time to command and you have a better career option than CX. A much better one.
- senior management in crisis, as Sheik M has made it known that they MUST do whatever it takes to staff and operate the airline properly
- effectively 450 - 500 pilots short, and getting worse by the week
- effectively 45+ aircraft parked, either actually, or virtually due reduced daily utilization
- resignation rate now critical, as pilots have other options (hello Anna...)
- basing not happening at EK (legal and practical reasons, hello CX), BUT commuter rosters are being constructed and about to be introduced (hello Anna)
- increase in pay package (hello Anna)
- increase in leave blocks (hello Anna)
- other sweetness to make EK the 'Best' airline to work for in ME
Overall, he told me that they will no longer allow themselves to be compromised, as the amount of money necessary to keep the pilots happy is FAR less (hello Anna) than that being cost by parked aircraft and uncontrollable training cost (hello Anna). Take that, as well as much quicker time to command and you have a better career option than CX. A much better one.
QATAR Airways used to be one of the worst jobs in the Middle East until they saw the light and improved things for the pilots, now it’s still not perfect but a huge improvement over what it was 10 years ago.
Emirates used to be one of the best jobs until they let it slide.
Emirates used to be one of the best jobs until they let it slide.
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United Arab Emirates
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QATAR Airways used to be one of the worst jobs in the Middle East until they saw the light and improved things for the pilots, now it’s still not perfect but a huge improvement over what it was 10 years ago.
Emirates used to be one of the best jobs until they let it slide.
Emirates used to be one of the best jobs until they let it slide.
As much as EK is a bit of a mess at times, I know there are some good people trying to change things. And more colleagues can only help so I encourage people to give it a go if they're unhappy elsewhere.
