Why would you want to come to CX?
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Why would you want to come to CX?
So with upgrades for SO’s predicted to be 4.5 years, this must be the worst job in the east by a “legacy airline “ more like terribly managed LCC.
Personally been here 2 years. Local guy from down under and I can’t stress how much I want to get out of this septic airline.
Managers lie to you continuously. HOT is the worst with emails telling that there 200+ Junior First Officer upgrades next Year. Tell me another one please.
DEFO’s come and trust me you will be interviewing for another airline in a few years when you realise you will be stuck doing the same job for 13 years to command.
Honestly to cadets and SO’s look else where HKA is a better option even, at least you log time and upgrades to FO/CN is quick.
Local guys need to understand that there other options for them too. Not just CX where you probably won’t get command with what I have seen In the Sim!!!
Lets say you have been warned by a guy that’s waiting for a airline to start opening courses soon !!!!!
Last edited by backtothegrindstone; 13th May 2018 at 03:44.
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100% agree with the above.
I’ve been here for 14 years and it was the biggest mistake of my life.
Anyone who’s not already a Captain and building the left seat time to leave for a DEC gig (as I am) should leave NOW while you can. Make hey while the sun shines.
If you absolutely insist on coming to the unaffordable, disgusting cesspit that is Hong Kong, do yourself a favour and at least go to HK airlines or Dragon, for the instant type rating, so you’ll be good to go when you realise what a mistake Hong Kong was in the first place...
So that’s a +2 from me 👍🏽
SF
I’ve been here for 14 years and it was the biggest mistake of my life.
Anyone who’s not already a Captain and building the left seat time to leave for a DEC gig (as I am) should leave NOW while you can. Make hey while the sun shines.
If you absolutely insist on coming to the unaffordable, disgusting cesspit that is Hong Kong, do yourself a favour and at least go to HK airlines or Dragon, for the instant type rating, so you’ll be good to go when you realise what a mistake Hong Kong was in the first place...
So that’s a +2 from me 👍🏽
SF
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So with upgrades for SO’s predicted to be 4.5 years, this must be the worst job in the east by a “legacy airline “ more like terribly managed LCC.
Personally been here 2 years. Local guy from down under and I can’t stress how much I want to get out of this septic airline.
Managers lie to you continuously. Head of Training is the worst with his emails telling that there 200+ Junior First Officer upgrades next Year. Tell me another one please.
DEFO’s come and trust me you will be interviewing for another airline in a few years when you realise you will be stuck doing the same job for 13 years to command.
Honestly to cadets and SO’s look else where HKA is a better option even, at least you log time and upgrades to FO/CN is quick.
Local guys need to understand that there other options for them too. Not just CX where you probably won’t get command with what I have seen In the Sim!!!
Lets say you have been warned by a guy that’s waiting for a airline to start opening courses soon !!!!!
Buyers beware!!! Come to CX and you will be miserable.
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Dear Grindstone, (and anyone else who joined around your time up to 6 years ago)
I'm assuming that when you applied to Cathay, you did research. Typed in Cathay Pacific into Google and read about Kantzow, Farrell, CX first flight etc and on what Type and where - the usual softcore BS that may be asked at an initial interview.
I'm also assuming that some of the key words you would have typed into google was "Living in Hong Kong", " Working for Cathay Pacific" etc. Key words like Cathay Interview, etc. Now even if you had never heard of PPrune in your life (which I highly doubt it if you have had a passion for being a pilot / previous experience) - the top 10 results would have led you to the Fragrant Harbour.
Therefore may I respectfully ask !!!!W.T.F!!!! you read that made you think it would be any different to what you are complaining about now? Seriously mate, I would love to know. And I'm sure the regular names here who have been trying to educate wannabes like yourself would like to know where they went wrong so they can change their posts to drive home the point better.
Cos right now, I have ZERO sympathy for any Cadet of the past 5 years who is complaining on the very Forum that tried to warn them.
I'm assuming that when you applied to Cathay, you did research. Typed in Cathay Pacific into Google and read about Kantzow, Farrell, CX first flight etc and on what Type and where - the usual softcore BS that may be asked at an initial interview.
I'm also assuming that some of the key words you would have typed into google was "Living in Hong Kong", " Working for Cathay Pacific" etc. Key words like Cathay Interview, etc. Now even if you had never heard of PPrune in your life (which I highly doubt it if you have had a passion for being a pilot / previous experience) - the top 10 results would have led you to the Fragrant Harbour.
Therefore may I respectfully ask !!!!W.T.F!!!! you read that made you think it would be any different to what you are complaining about now? Seriously mate, I would love to know. And I'm sure the regular names here who have been trying to educate wannabes like yourself would like to know where they went wrong so they can change their posts to drive home the point better.
Cos right now, I have ZERO sympathy for any Cadet of the past 5 years who is complaining on the very Forum that tried to warn them.
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Unfortunately the nature of these anonymous forms yield a fair amount of skepticism. Comparing what is written here with the information from the company certainly would make one wonder. It is the internet after all, anonymous and lacking credibility. To the unsuspecting, CX is a reputable company with well paid pilots and offers a career. Pilots after all, are notorious for complaining and aviation itself is for the most part, an honest profession. "A company wouldn't lie".
As someone who has escaped it all, I will tell you that these FH forums are spot on!
They lie
They cheat
They steal
Whether this is indemic to CX, HK or Asia I do not know. As a westerner you'll be naive to it all. Be wise.
As someone who has escaped it all, I will tell you that these FH forums are spot on!
They lie
They cheat
They steal
Whether this is indemic to CX, HK or Asia I do not know. As a westerner you'll be naive to it all. Be wise.
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Not long out of flight school and not far off the requirements for SO application, which, at one point, seemed like a genuine opportunity. However I'll be dodging this bullet. I mean, it's one thing for one person to report unfavourably about CX and doubt them for it, but hundreds of people can't be wrong.
Good choice mate!
Cathay is not a bullet, more like a cannonball that will be destroying your career.
With certain people at the trigger waiting to end your career so they can act like important people.
Last edited by backtothegrindstone; 13th May 2018 at 03:42.
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Dear Grindstone, (and anyone else who joined around your time up to 6 years ago)
I'm assuming that when you applied to Cathay, you did research. Typed in Cathay Pacific into Google and read about Kantzow, Farrell, CX first flight etc and on what Type and where - the usual softcore BS that may be asked at an initial interview.
I'm also assuming that some of the key words you would have typed into google was "Living in Hong Kong", " Working for Cathay Pacific" etc. Key words like Cathay Interview, etc. Now even if you had never heard of PPrune in your life (which I highly doubt it if you have had a passion for being a pilot / previous experience) - the top 10 results would have led you to the Fragrant Harbour.
Therefore may I respectfully ask !!!!W.T.F!!!! you read that made you think it would be any different to what you are complaining about now? Seriously mate, I would love to know. And I'm sure the regular names here who have been trying to educate wannabes like yourself would like to know where they went wrong so they can change their posts to drive home the point better.
Cos right now, I have ZERO sympathy for any Cadet of the past 5 years who is complaining on the very Forum that tried to warn them.
I'm assuming that when you applied to Cathay, you did research. Typed in Cathay Pacific into Google and read about Kantzow, Farrell, CX first flight etc and on what Type and where - the usual softcore BS that may be asked at an initial interview.
I'm also assuming that some of the key words you would have typed into google was "Living in Hong Kong", " Working for Cathay Pacific" etc. Key words like Cathay Interview, etc. Now even if you had never heard of PPrune in your life (which I highly doubt it if you have had a passion for being a pilot / previous experience) - the top 10 results would have led you to the Fragrant Harbour.
Therefore may I respectfully ask !!!!W.T.F!!!! you read that made you think it would be any different to what you are complaining about now? Seriously mate, I would love to know. And I'm sure the regular names here who have been trying to educate wannabes like yourself would like to know where they went wrong so they can change their posts to drive home the point better.
Cos right now, I have ZERO sympathy for any Cadet of the past 5 years who is complaining on the very Forum that tried to warn them.
hey big mouth
why are you still here ? Trying to educate people like me???
The sad thing is you still here..... probably unhappy as $&/@.
the funny thing is you will still be here moaning in 5 years. I will be out of here!!!
So let me ask you Mr I have no balls to leave , why you still in this sh&&hole ?
Maybe the housing alownece is to big ? So greed has bought you ? Maybe because you a BIG boy in CX and won’t see yourself move to another compnay ?
Dont be hypocritical - at least I can say I will be outta here after the next TA gets voted in and I get upgraded
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I have recently heard of an S/O who decided to leave his wife and newborn baby in Aus with the In Laws and commute. The ATO decided that as his family did not spend time in Hong Kong and he had spent more than 30 days in AUS for the past year, that he was a resident of Australia. Very big tax bill and fines.
So if you decide to move here for this job, you can apply the Hotel California rules. Those planning on commuting (or who are doing this currently) as part of the strategy for surviving the extortionate living costs in Hong Kong, maybe time to rethink.
So if you decide to move here for this job, you can apply the Hotel California rules. Those planning on commuting (or who are doing this currently) as part of the strategy for surviving the extortionate living costs in Hong Kong, maybe time to rethink.
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There has certainly been no lack of warning as to what to expect over the past several years.
So anyone coming here would know exactly what they are getting into. The golden handcuffs are not gold anymore. So I also have zero sympathy for jumping into the fray and then whining about it later.
This was not always the case and things have changed. For people older or entrenched in seniority I can understand their not wanting to dump this and possibly figure a way not to have this impact their life too much while they ride things out for a while then go do something else.
But in any case life is short and all you get is time. I’d submit if you let any aspect of this job detract from family life you are making a huge mistake which you will regret later. This is not a temporary thing; it’s beem going on for years.
So so spend your time wisely. If I were getting started this is the last place I’d consider — unless perhaps the plan is to gallivant around Asia having fun and sowing wild oats then bolt. But in the aviation game seniority is everything so there is a very high cost toward not being at the airline where you intend to make a career. I personally don’t see this as a career airline anymore.
That coild change but probably won’t.
Choose wisely folks.
So anyone coming here would know exactly what they are getting into. The golden handcuffs are not gold anymore. So I also have zero sympathy for jumping into the fray and then whining about it later.
This was not always the case and things have changed. For people older or entrenched in seniority I can understand their not wanting to dump this and possibly figure a way not to have this impact their life too much while they ride things out for a while then go do something else.
But in any case life is short and all you get is time. I’d submit if you let any aspect of this job detract from family life you are making a huge mistake which you will regret later. This is not a temporary thing; it’s beem going on for years.
So so spend your time wisely. If I were getting started this is the last place I’d consider — unless perhaps the plan is to gallivant around Asia having fun and sowing wild oats then bolt. But in the aviation game seniority is everything so there is a very high cost toward not being at the airline where you intend to make a career. I personally don’t see this as a career airline anymore.
That coild change but probably won’t.
Choose wisely folks.
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In what other major national carrier in the world are freshly minted wide body captains in their prime resigning to start at the bottom somewhere else?
This alone is the biggest indicator of Airline dysfunction. Management thought it was just a handful of the unhappy last year but the numbers keep growing. Recruitment can’t keep up with the resignation rate and 65 & 55 retirements so the airline shrinks, Command time & S/O time (over 5 years now) extend making for even more unhappy pilots.
So the vicious circle continues & I doubt very much whether management will be coming to the table anytime soon with an offer to break it so the title of this thread is very apt.
This alone is the biggest indicator of Airline dysfunction. Management thought it was just a handful of the unhappy last year but the numbers keep growing. Recruitment can’t keep up with the resignation rate and 65 & 55 retirements so the airline shrinks, Command time & S/O time (over 5 years now) extend making for even more unhappy pilots.
So the vicious circle continues & I doubt very much whether management will be coming to the table anytime soon with an offer to break it so the title of this thread is very apt.
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Grindstone,
I'm not entirely sure I understand your response to my post, nor to I get the name calling. Perhaps that is the attitude of the young'ns these days.
I believe I asked a very fair question which doesn't always happen on PPrune. You are the one who came here crying like a female dog. My question to you and your colleagues - What in your research 2 years ago made you think things would be anything other than what you wrote?
As I said before, any type of research would have linked you to the Fragrant Harbour - you would have had all the information needed written by guys who took the time out to educate guys like you
As I said - zero sympathy.
I'm not entirely sure I understand your response to my post, nor to I get the name calling. Perhaps that is the attitude of the young'ns these days.
I believe I asked a very fair question which doesn't always happen on PPrune. You are the one who came here crying like a female dog. My question to you and your colleagues - What in your research 2 years ago made you think things would be anything other than what you wrote?
As I said before, any type of research would have linked you to the Fragrant Harbour - you would have had all the information needed written by guys who took the time out to educate guys like you
As I said - zero sympathy.
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Got to add a different spin on this...
I joined CX with a little bit of experience in my early 20's. I enjoyed HK for a few years before the inevitability of living in HK and working for CX with a young family kicked in and I couldn't wait to get out. By that point I had upgraded and had 1000+ hours in a window seat (one of the few benefits of a 330 upgrade, you get enough practice to get quite good quite quickly) which basically meant I had a choice of decent gigs back home. I am now coming up to a LHS in a big(ish) jet and living at home. Money is decent, life is good.
The reality is that CX is now a modern apprenticeship; the days of GA etc being a pathway to the top jobs are largely a thing of the past in my opinion. The industry has changed. Not sure how the 2 SO thing has changed the timescales of all of this but it certainly worked for me.
That said, they really are complete pricks to work for. Believe every word of it. Expect them to bully, lie and manipulate at every opportunity. Just make sure you use the anonymity of being a number in a massive company to restore some balance. I certainly did and don't regret it for a second.
If you're young, free and single and in your early 20's I still think it is one of, if not THE best way to get started in the industry. You may not end up better pilot than the ex GA guy but where else can you spend a week every month (or live) surfing and sh*gging in Bali, Phuket etc if you choose to? (FYI I did my stint in GA, very useful but not necessary in a modern jet IMO). Especially if you end up on the 777, lifestyle is great. Just be under no illusions, it is absolutely NOT a career and won't ever be again. Which is quite sad in truth but c'est la vie...
Joining and then leaving CX were the best things I ever did.
I joined CX with a little bit of experience in my early 20's. I enjoyed HK for a few years before the inevitability of living in HK and working for CX with a young family kicked in and I couldn't wait to get out. By that point I had upgraded and had 1000+ hours in a window seat (one of the few benefits of a 330 upgrade, you get enough practice to get quite good quite quickly) which basically meant I had a choice of decent gigs back home. I am now coming up to a LHS in a big(ish) jet and living at home. Money is decent, life is good.
The reality is that CX is now a modern apprenticeship; the days of GA etc being a pathway to the top jobs are largely a thing of the past in my opinion. The industry has changed. Not sure how the 2 SO thing has changed the timescales of all of this but it certainly worked for me.
That said, they really are complete pricks to work for. Believe every word of it. Expect them to bully, lie and manipulate at every opportunity. Just make sure you use the anonymity of being a number in a massive company to restore some balance. I certainly did and don't regret it for a second.
If you're young, free and single and in your early 20's I still think it is one of, if not THE best way to get started in the industry. You may not end up better pilot than the ex GA guy but where else can you spend a week every month (or live) surfing and sh*gging in Bali, Phuket etc if you choose to? (FYI I did my stint in GA, very useful but not necessary in a modern jet IMO). Especially if you end up on the 777, lifestyle is great. Just be under no illusions, it is absolutely NOT a career and won't ever be again. Which is quite sad in truth but c'est la vie...
Joining and then leaving CX were the best things I ever did.
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I must say lots of truth in what you have said. CX is now becoming a training airline and it will be just that for me! They could not change my mind in the slightest to stay. The 2 SO thing is probably a massive factor for guys looking to leave this airline. Your upgrade 2 FO will take 5 years. They are going to keep you in the cheap seat for as long as possible.
It is happening now as we speak.
They hiring DEFO over guys and girls that have been here for 3+ years. Why? because they want to expand the 2 SO thing. They blame it on the Training Ban ( which has caused issues ) but there SO's with lots of experience and they overlooked also. It is a shame. No movement on the SL.
Which is $#%@ed up if you ask me.
Now i need the upgrade so i have handcuffs on at the moment. This is the issue for guy with min time. You stuck here, and for older guys you stuck here also. I can see the disappointment all around.
And this is not just in the SO group but the FO's and CPT's.
People are leaving.
Less people are joining - why spend 5 years here when you can be a CPT in 2 years in KA? or 5 years in HKA?
This company biggest cost will be its training cost soon.
ABANDON SHIP
It is happening now as we speak.
They hiring DEFO over guys and girls that have been here for 3+ years. Why? because they want to expand the 2 SO thing. They blame it on the Training Ban ( which has caused issues ) but there SO's with lots of experience and they overlooked also. It is a shame. No movement on the SL.
Which is $#%@ed up if you ask me.
Now i need the upgrade so i have handcuffs on at the moment. This is the issue for guy with min time. You stuck here, and for older guys you stuck here also. I can see the disappointment all around.
And this is not just in the SO group but the FO's and CPT's.
People are leaving.
Less people are joining - why spend 5 years here when you can be a CPT in 2 years in KA? or 5 years in HKA?
This company biggest cost will be its training cost soon.
ABANDON SHIP
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I've recently spoken to a couple of shiny jet widebody wannabes and even after explaining all the pitfalls some of which they had no idea about (2 X S/Os = 4-5 years / no window time being useless etc) and still at the end both said exactly the same thing "oh I'd still like to join"
Grindstone in your honest opinion is there anything that would have deterred you? Do you look back and see any point where you doubted your decision to continue the application? Or is it simply the need to see it for yourself do you think?
I was told over 20 years ago don't join, the writing is on the wall ('89 was the change) the company had changed but l still joined some years later, and now the seniority handcuffs are well and truly on. I'm actively working out when I can afford to go to the bottom of a new seniority list. Obviously life events mostly due to HK have thrown a few curve balls so I could be financially better off. Without seniority I would have left ages ago like many non aviation friends who can move around feely and can spend their career moving from company to company with no financial loss, usually a financial gain with each move.
Personally nothing will stop them coming and the 5 year SO is a genius stroke by the company the lack of window time will mean the hours are useless and the seniority cuffs will be taking hold after the 1000+ hours have finally been gained.
Good luck to you grindstone and please report back in the future wherever that may be.
Grindstone in your honest opinion is there anything that would have deterred you? Do you look back and see any point where you doubted your decision to continue the application? Or is it simply the need to see it for yourself do you think?
I was told over 20 years ago don't join, the writing is on the wall ('89 was the change) the company had changed but l still joined some years later, and now the seniority handcuffs are well and truly on. I'm actively working out when I can afford to go to the bottom of a new seniority list. Obviously life events mostly due to HK have thrown a few curve balls so I could be financially better off. Without seniority I would have left ages ago like many non aviation friends who can move around feely and can spend their career moving from company to company with no financial loss, usually a financial gain with each move.
Personally nothing will stop them coming and the 5 year SO is a genius stroke by the company the lack of window time will mean the hours are useless and the seniority cuffs will be taking hold after the 1000+ hours have finally been gained.
Good luck to you grindstone and please report back in the future wherever that may be.
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5 years as an SO is just the tip of the iceberg. The next 10+ will be spent as an FO, mostly RQ, on the back of the clock due to, again, 2 x SO long haul. So, it’s not just 5 years of misery, it’s 15 unless you leave earlier. There is very little green grass left at CX, and even that is being rapidly killed off.
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HKCAD and CX have a unique form of rating. The P2X.
It is not a full type rating, you don't need to take off or land (good thing for some of the new joiners coming through these days) nor keep any form of T/O and Landing recency.
You log P2X time whilst you are in the seat. These hours are worthless. You will spend 5+ years logging 1/2 the flight time, time not recognised as 'experience' to other employers or Aviation Authorities. 5+ years on low income, living in a shoe box, not going up a real airline seniority list.
Don't waste your life coming to CX.
It is not a full type rating, you don't need to take off or land (good thing for some of the new joiners coming through these days) nor keep any form of T/O and Landing recency.
You log P2X time whilst you are in the seat. These hours are worthless. You will spend 5+ years logging 1/2 the flight time, time not recognised as 'experience' to other employers or Aviation Authorities. 5+ years on low income, living in a shoe box, not going up a real airline seniority list.
Don't waste your life coming to CX.
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I hear several guys complaining about time to command, 5 years as a SO then 10 as a FO which makes it about 15 to command. If you would join the likes as QF, AA, BA or KLM I think it’s even more. So the issue here is the lifestyle in HK and how the company treats you so please stop complaining about your career progress at CX.