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Letter from Greg Hughes (Service Delivery Mgr) to HKAOA

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Letter from Greg Hughes (Service Delivery Mgr) to HKAOA

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Old 14th Apr 2018, 08:51
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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NO MORE CONCESSIONS! We have given enough over the last 2 DECADES!
Walk away.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 10:35
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger321,

I see what you mean. I didn't spend too much time on cathaypacific.com, but yes it seems through May, June and July the JNB service is shaved back to 5 or 6 per week. I think you have to go back to the 747 days for anything other than a daily JNB service.

However, sometimes they redeploy aircraft to more profitable routes. Paris is an example of this. It chops and changes from daily to double daily. That doesn't mean less crew usage, just means the aircraft are used elsewhere.

PS. Not good news for the Saffa commuters.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 11:55
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I like your thinking Rated De
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 12:00
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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The NC/GC will be wasting our time if they present a TA with any concessions. It will fail, many are just too far into this debacle to accept any concessions and actually expect gains.
There is no need to hurry into meaningful negotiations, play them along as they have demonstrated to us before. Delay, prevaricate and deceive are tactics that we too can use.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:24
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Just had a very interesting dinner with someone who shed some light on where all this is going. In short, it's a last attempt grab at reducing operating costs to make the margin between costs and profit as large as possible. This will enable a sale at the highest price possible to whatever mainland or other investor/airline that will then inherit the disgruntled and fleeing pilots. They have planned this to a "T". From the hedge to rape the cash from the war chest. To the "perceived" crisis that enabled shrinking management by a third and widening the gap between costs and revenue. This profit when realized, will drive the sale price to it's Max. All this, while the foundations shake from the instability and unrest that lay beneath the balance sheet. Within a few years swire will be nothing but a memory. So any concessions given will result in no repayment or promises kept. The trainers are training the new cost base that the new owner will expect will be the base line from this point forward. If shrinking the airline is what's needed to achieve the same profit margin and artificially raise the sale price then that is what will happen. Any concessions pilots give will only further play into this plan. You have been warned... Don't just walk away.... Run.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 23:38
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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There is another option ....... just hold the line!!
They are past masters at the delay, prevaricate, misdirect and deceive method of pirate bargaining 101.
They want us to crumble.
But they need us to fly.

This is not a time for concessions, but instead it really is a time for significant modern improvements to the package. Let's not live in with the past. Flying 72hrs and 5-4-3 are long gone, and perhaps outdated. We do need to move with the times.

We are having to be accepting of the un-lubed JCP.
But Swires are now having to deal with an increasingly unwilling workforce who have been pushed too far. The consolidation of anti-concession feeling has now worked against them.

We want the airline to succeed. But in a mutually beneficial way.
Time for Swires to reach into those deep pockets, watch out for the plague of moths as the wallet is opened, they'll hate us for it, but $$$$ is now the only way.

Hold the line! And that means all you guys on the GC too!!
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 23:43
  #27 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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RAT Management - do CX now look towards the possibility of the sale to and absorption by such operators as China Southern? (China Southern just an example). Re paint all the aircraft, dump all reference to Cathay Pacific in Ts and Cs, SOPs, Ops manuals, uniforms etc. etc. HKG just becomes another base, existing, (remaining) crew to be offered system wide basing on standard China Southern contracts, judging by what some have said on this forum wouldn't this be an overall improvement? If the HR department are on the move could this be a sign?


EDIT: Or, LongTimeInCX, Swire could just sell up and join the exodus? The difference being, Swire will have the money.

Last edited by parabellum; 15th Apr 2018 at 02:37.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 07:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Never Ever Forget History - or a Leopard Never Changes its Spots

Dear Cx Colleagues - worrying times I know but re-read this post and you know what to expect.

Cathay History Lesson

Good luck to you all
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 08:18
  #29 (permalink)  
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Captain Boers. Not really worrying at all. You only "worry" when you "care". As nearly none of us care anymore, and most are already well on their way to their next employer, whatever actions CX management can take are practically neutered already. You can't worry people who have already "checked out". The management can set off all the fireworks they have, it won't matter. As a matter of fact, I hope they do. The entertainment value will be priceless.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:44
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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In answer to the question about pilots being better off if absorbed by (for example) China southern...I think on money it will be swings and roundabouts. The only plus might be options to take a base. But security for the long term and things like housing/schooling/medical will all be erroded. You talk to anyone that's doing those contacts, it's not a choice and the enjoyment is no where to be seen, unless you want out of Hong Kong yesterday. Don't think a new owner will want to give more than this lot. It will only be a change and a change for the worse. If you can find something better take it, for where this is heading is only going to be worse. The CMP will be the first step on the road to unbearable and not worth it any more... Hold the line or else. It would help if the trainers assisted in putting on the brakes to force the tie break into our favor.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 12:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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A base working for China Southern? Big queue of expats based in CAN already waiting for one having been stitched up by the agencies I hear. You're better off going back to Europe/USA/Canada/Australia/NZ. Money isn't everything.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 12:52
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why the big dissertation on contract companies. Nearly all of the CX pilots who are interested in leaving have plenty of opportunities at the worlds majors. The contract companies are going to have the same problem CX is having: pilots don't need to put up with the bull anymore. Bye bye CX.

Last edited by Air Profit; 15th Apr 2018 at 14:20.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 05:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 06:40
  #34 (permalink)  
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Both FO's from my flight this weekend leaving in the next 3 months. They said that QF is looking to take multiple hundreds of pilots, so as to hoover up the Aussie license holders before the competition does. Joyce has authorised their recruiters to over staff, as it is cheaper to do that than run out of pilots and park aircraft. Are you listening Anna.....tick tock. (to keep track, last 6 long haul flights, 10 pilots confirmed they are leaving, 2 applied and awaiting interviews).
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 07:28
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Joyce has authorised their recruiters to over staff
That's how an AIRLINE operates, not a bottling/shipping/real-estate manager looking at their next (unrelated) job.

They look into the future...................................................... ..........................
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 09:31
  #36 (permalink)  
hyg
 
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Easiest way to see whether they cancelled flight in advance?

Ask the cabin crew for their trump flight list. They get given that list of the unusual 6days LAX, 6 days SFO or NYC etc patterns so they could bid for it few months in advance....that would give a reasonable indication of how many flights have been cancelled as the company isn't gonna give the cabin crew a extended stay unless they absolutely have to right?
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:50
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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What the heck is a Trump Flight list?

And dare I ask why the pilots don’t get this??!
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 14:28
  #38 (permalink)  
hyg
 
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Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
What the heck is a Trump Flight list?

And dare I ask why the pilots don’t get this??!
surely you know the cabin crew get rewarded for not calling in sick after a certain period of time (yes this is not a good practice for our industry but somehow companies in hk do reward staff either in cash or whatever as a reward for showing up on time etc).

And their reward is called a trump card which they can bid for 'special' patterned flights and they get that like 2 or 3 months in advance.... so yes, you know that standard crewing pattern we see for the next month, it only shows us the standard, but if you want a once off or once a week special flight like a short holiday in LAX or SFO or wherever it may be, the cabin crew do know at least couple of months in advance as opposed to us getting it by luck while the cabin crew gets rewarded for whatever they did previously....one eg, there was a 100 hours layover in Rome during Christmas last year, the cabin crew would know that like back in Oct and may be even earlier so they can bid for it, but because we don't even know those pattern will exist so there's no way for us to request those either, may be the company doesn't want us to know how many flights they cancelled well in advance .....
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 14:46
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hyg View Post
Easiest way to see whether they cancelled flight in advance?
Or if you're bored like I am, just go to cx.com and search the timetable.

In May, only 3 days out of the entire month you find SYD with all 4 flights operating, the other 28 days only 3 flights. Similar cancellations for LHR.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 17:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Trump Flight List ??

What reward do flight crew get for being conscientious and not calling in sick ?? I will tell you, SFA !!!!

What does our CAD do about all these cancelled flights ?? In Europe they fine the shit out of airlines for playing that game.. CX has blocked all the slots with "daily" and then randomly cancel flights - other airlines should sue the hell out of them.. CX has lots of experience in court for these types of scams.. One place where they do have lots of relevant experience.

A joke of a company run by a board of mis-directors. How many do you think have an MBA or better yet, a degree in a relevant subject to what they are charged to manage... Joke.
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