Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

2017 Annual report - lol

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

2017 Annual report - lol

Old 7th Apr 2018, 07:29
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,132
Why wouldn't a reasonably well educated and intelligent DFO realise that. Seems crazy not to look after your Captains.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2018, 10:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by oriental flyer View Post
I used to avoid thunderstorms using the minimum deviation possible , not any more , I used to check the winds at higher altitude with other aircraft in the vicinity to get the best possible fuel consumption . Not any more . I used to always operate at or as close to optimum levels as possible . Not any more
I used to take the first available hsto after landing for a shorter taxi . Not any more . I used to employ RETI as soon as possible . Now I couldnít be bothered
The list goes on and on ,
I no longer care about fuel saving , passenger comfort has become my mantra . If itís turbulent descend to a level with smooth air , never call visual only accept radar vectors , always configure early I donít want to ping an FDAP

ROFLMAO ....to the exact amount is what I do.....discretion.....like wtf is that?.....i dont hear that word anymore if I am even bothered to be asked......I would say ďDecemberĒ if I was even bothered by a manager....u want me to do what? U expect me to keep the show on the road? God I wish I would be asked......all they would record is my laughter.....dumbasses
Scoreboard is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2018, 14:08
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by oriental flyer View Post
I used to avoid thunderstorms using the minimum deviation possible , not any more , I used to check the winds at higher altitude with other aircraft in the vicinity to get the best possible fuel consumption . Not any more . I used to always operate at or as close to optimum levels as possible . Not any more
I used to take the first available hsto after landing for a shorter taxi . Not any more . I used to employ RETI as soon as possible . Now I couldnít be bothered
The list goes on and on ,
I no longer care about fuel saving , passenger comfort has become my mantra . If itís turbulent descend to a level with smooth air , never call visual only accept radar vectors , always configure early I donít want to ping an FDAP

Be very cautious; there are quite a few extremely keen future management individuals who will drop your name whenever they fly with the GMO, GMF or various management pilots of the respective fleets.
Yes, the very same individuals that are AOA members
corrigin is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 01:18
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by corrigin View Post
Be very cautious; there are quite a few extremely keen future management individuals who will drop your name whenever they fly with the GMO, GMF or various management pilots of the respective fleets.
Yes, the very same individuals that are AOA members
Ya know, I don't think anyone of quality much gives a [email protected] anymore.

In all sincerity there really IS very good reason for doing what it takes to enhance passenger comfort. And that's YOUR comfort too--as well as the cabin crew who is doing the legwork walking around the back.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 01:42
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 367
Corrigin , thanks for the heads up I appreciate your concern but at this stage I really donít care .
So what if a super keen management wannabe reports me for avoiding a Cb by a wide margin . Its a judgement call and I will put my 30plus years in Aviation against their 5-10 anytime .
Iím usually configured early so what ? The alternative if Iím called in to answer for it is to push the envelope . Then when Iím not stable a missed approach is called for , kiss 3-5 tonnes of fuel goodbye . Mind you that sounds like a great idea I might take that on board.

You cannot live in fear your entire life , sometimes you have to take a stand . Scratch my back and I will happily scratch yours . Screw me over and I will make it my mission to repay the favour
oriental flyer is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 04:55
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
Posts: 51
Shep69 and Oriental Flyer,

I agree with you both; no qualms from me. I mention it because I've recently received an e-mail from the GMO asking me to explain myself for doing just that (avoiding a CB by a wide margin) and the report states that I burned unnecessary contingency fuel (in accordance to a colleague (per GMO's words)).
I've responded courteously and professionally, as usual, explaining myself without any remorse citing safety and passenger comfort supersedes fuel savings. Have yet to receive a response from him.

Oriental Flyer, ABSOLUTELY, One cannot live in fear especially when it comes to your safety as well as your license. All I'm saying is that, unfortunately, there are more juniors nowadays that have come onboard with the assistance from the 'Bank of Mum and Dad', and somehow believe that their five years of experience is on par with your thirty plus.

Two things I am sure of:

(1) They are only here because they would NOT pass an interview in any other airline.

(2) They would NOT have lasted in this airline during the days of Hal Dybal etc.

Like yourself, I too am configured to be stable with 'room to spare' before the company limit (which again, people seem to believe this is some sort of target as my previous Chief Pilot would say.

My point is: Be aware. Time has changed and unfortunately, not for the better.
corrigin is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 07:00
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
corrigin. I call a BS on that. Two reasons:. firstly, you are mentioning a specific incident. If in fact that happened, you have identified yourself to the originator of said query, the GMO. For that reason, I don't believe this is a true story, as you would hardly want to add to his upset with this public revelation. Secondly, I can't believe even this management would question a deviation for weather (other than if it led to other problems, like airspace violations or separation criteria). This story strikes me as an obfuscated attempt to 'scare off' pilots in CX from taking any action. My 2c worth.
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 07:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,132
Corrigin
How did the GMO know how far away the CB was?? Did the F/O report you?? Let's have his name if that's the case. Arse.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 08:52
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 516
I normally visit the Fragrant Harbour threads for a bit of a laff at you guys swinging your handbags at each other but it is no longer entertaining and a very dismal read. CX looks to have declined into a miserable outfit. Very distressing for some. My heart goes out to many of you who enjoyed the golden era and some, like Traf, who has spent his entire career there, only to be broken by what he now observes. To the latter, Sir, maybe time to move on & cherish the memories. Pour yourself a cheeky one & flip through those lovely old photo albums. The anxiety you regularly display at the "toxic" environment you currently suffer will prove very costly to your health.


Those of us from the golden era will have enjoyed the best. It has slowly changed. I find little to encourage youngsters, who regularly ask for my opinion, about the profession. Just not the same anymore.


CX, from what many describe in these pages appears no better than the miserable cowboy outfit I suffered following the collapse of a major European. Mate of mine, in the same outfit engineered an early departure and never looked back.Took me with him & we really have enjoyed looking back over the last 30 years.


Raising a Sunday brunch glass to the good ole CX days Long gone. Won't come back.
Very sad to read of the professional distaste for what was, once, a splendid carrier.
Landflap is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2018, 09:41
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Landflap. Appreciate your sincere and thoughtful post. Although I can understand the advice you have provided, let me assure you that I am quite serene about my own circumstance, and I don't lose much sleep over the current situation as it pertains to me personally. What I am motivated by however is the responsibility towards the traveling public, and my other colleagues. In particular, I do not wish to see CX manipulate and cheat hundreds of good people out of what should be a good career in aviation, both for them and their families.

CX is toxic, and unless some of us clearly and methodically take on the appalling management that is Swire, many more pilots will be led off track by wasting years at CX, before recognising they must leave to salvage their careers and secure their families long term future. If I can help one fellow pilot avoid that fate, then my efforts will have been worth it. I assure you, I personally take much satisfaction in laying bare the machinations and deceit of the CX / Swire management, and am gratified to see that many pilots at this airline are now stirring and making their plans to leave. The ever increasing resignation rate is the proof that the message is finally becoming understood.

Best wishes. Traf
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 06:24
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Arfur Dent View Post
Corrigin
How did the GMO know how far away the CB was?? Did the F/O report you?? Let's have his name if that's the case. Arse.
Affirm - PM sent to you.
corrigin is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 07:06
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 405
If we have FOs like that, then Arfur is not the only one who would like to know his or her name!

It's bad enough "playing" the cabin crew's reporting game...
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 07:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,132
Corrigin - Thanks for PM. You don't accept replies apparently which is fine. All I would say is check "the books" for the "approved techniques" and report accordingly if required. Consider taking an AOA rep with you to any interview. This FO has given your name to the GMO which is unforgivable in these circumstances. Weather avoidance is very much a judgement call and that's what you get paid for. You shouldn't have to justify yourself afterwards. I was 150 miles off track in the ITCZ once. What a sad place CX has become.
Good luck to you anyway. Stand your ground - that's what you get paid for too.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 07:40
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
If legit, then the FO needs to be named. If legit, then my apologies and sympathy. This FO needs to be neutered from doing any more harm. Disgusting. The simple comment to management would be "I was there, you weren't".
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 08:53
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 50
Donít believe it would be a good idea for him to name and shame as much as we want to. That would identify the CN and open him up victimization in the work force now. Unless the FO in question has done it on multiple occasions in which case the CN could have plausible deniability.
Brokeidiot is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 09:02
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
So, it's acceptable to have an FO attempt intimidation and a reckless attempt at damaging a Captain, but he can do it without fear of any comeback? If that is where this airline has gone, then it's over. Try that at BA or QF and see where your career goes...
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 09:36
  #37 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 3
What's to fear? It's an open and just reporting culture supposedly, and comments like "FO's need to be neutered" are the sort of workplace bullying that can lead to an FO not reporting genuinely unsafe behaviour from a fear of being ostracised/ seen as a snitch
Freehills is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 09:56
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
"Bullying"...? Grow up. It's a phrase, not a threat...not planning on removing his testicles. What exactly would be 'unsafe' by avoiding a thunderstorm by a 'wide margin' ? It seems the supergrass felt that the Captain was doing so to be 'anti-company'. That at least seems to be the inference. If that is the case, my comment about neutering is valid. I am not going to have FO's marching into the Fleet Office and suggesting that my actions are anti-company, just because I decided to be conservative. That road leads to Hell...
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 10:01
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Regardless of the facts, this type of incident/story only adds to the weight of evidence that this company is in a death-spiral. It's bad enough we have to fight a venal, incompetent and malicious management. It's another thing altogether when our own colleagues think that speaking to a manager about something like this is appropriate. That sort of individual will surely not last in the long run in this industry.
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2018, 10:15
  #40 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 3
Anyway - back to the topic. Notice to the stock market today that our chairman has bought a flat from Swire for 120m HKD. So, he obviously isn't short of a bob or two, despite fuel hedging etc.
Freehills is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.