KA's salary taking a hit
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KA's salary taking a hit
With the assumption of the rumoured 0% raise for the next year , I thought it would be of note to look at the compounded effect of inflation of a typical casic salary at CXHDA.
In 2013 a basic first year captains salary was $xxx.xxx. After assuming an annual inflation rate of 4% , the salary should be origional basic plus hk$23000. The current basic stands at just plus $8000, therefore a loss of $15000 PER MONTH.
Thats HK$180,000 per year that has simply vanished with the effects of inflation.
Local pilots beware. Before you think a 1 or 2 % raise is fine, in exchange for an increase in the Overtime threashold to 82 hours, think again.
The old, wise old B scalers are ring fenced. They sit on huge housing gains, so ultimately, a further 1 or 2 year salary freeze will be of little consequence.
Standard contract guys, its over to you. Good luck.
In 2013 a basic first year captains salary was $xxx.xxx. After assuming an annual inflation rate of 4% , the salary should be origional basic plus hk$23000. The current basic stands at just plus $8000, therefore a loss of $15000 PER MONTH.
Thats HK$180,000 per year that has simply vanished with the effects of inflation.
Local pilots beware. Before you think a 1 or 2 % raise is fine, in exchange for an increase in the Overtime threashold to 82 hours, think again.
The old, wise old B scalers are ring fenced. They sit on huge housing gains, so ultimately, a further 1 or 2 year salary freeze will be of little consequence.
Standard contract guys, its over to you. Good luck.
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Krone
Can't use an inflation rate of 4%, that's more or less the "average" for a local HK person eating at a Dai pai dong daily.
Take a better 15 year picture and stick in schooling costs, sports for kids, midsize + housing inflation, loss of housing allowance (now HKPA), families purchasing travel because annual FOC is a joke, families now having to purchase additional (outside) health insurance policies due to poor coverage levels of CX medical cover, if you have more than 1 tooth filling a year NOTHING is covered on dental.... I could go on an on. I think if someone really took the time - the "real" picture as to how much ground has been lost would make your eyes water. One thing I can guarantee though, the Swire Prince and Princesses have NOT suffered the same negative evolution.
#MCXGA
Can't use an inflation rate of 4%, that's more or less the "average" for a local HK person eating at a Dai pai dong daily.
Take a better 15 year picture and stick in schooling costs, sports for kids, midsize + housing inflation, loss of housing allowance (now HKPA), families purchasing travel because annual FOC is a joke, families now having to purchase additional (outside) health insurance policies due to poor coverage levels of CX medical cover, if you have more than 1 tooth filling a year NOTHING is covered on dental.... I could go on an on. I think if someone really took the time - the "real" picture as to how much ground has been lost would make your eyes water. One thing I can guarantee though, the Swire Prince and Princesses have NOT suffered the same negative evolution.
#MCXGA
Last edited by Flex88; 15th Mar 2018 at 04:09.
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Flex , so true. I don’t have the desire to include all costs , as I would no doubt curl up & 😢
I can think of school debentures for starters that need to be covered from ones salary. Min hk50000 per kid . Max .. well the skies the limit, just look at Harrow or HKIS. Harrow, 4 million $hk . Please, check out their websites.
I remember not paying extra for health insurance. We were covered by an excellent scheme. Now guys commonly fork out $50000 hk for family cover. And if you don’t, there are plenty of sorry souls who have gotten sick and have had to revert to crown funding for their treatment. Not good.
But hey, the standard contract guys are all mainly young fit millenials and never suffer sickness or have kids.
Good luck .
I can think of school debentures for starters that need to be covered from ones salary. Min hk50000 per kid . Max .. well the skies the limit, just look at Harrow or HKIS. Harrow, 4 million $hk . Please, check out their websites.
I remember not paying extra for health insurance. We were covered by an excellent scheme. Now guys commonly fork out $50000 hk for family cover. And if you don’t, there are plenty of sorry souls who have gotten sick and have had to revert to crown funding for their treatment. Not good.
But hey, the standard contract guys are all mainly young fit millenials and never suffer sickness or have kids.
Good luck .
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KA Pilot Pay
The C scale Special Allowance (housing) has not increased since 2014. The pay rise last year was 0% and it looks like it will be 0% again this year. The 3 years prior to that were all sub inflation pay rises and the total remuneration continues to reduce in its purchasing power. The costs of rent, food, schooling, medical, taxies, travel, electricity, gas all march on. The standard package continues to erode at quite a pace. Yet the global demand for experienced pilots and the value of the contracts they offer continues to increase. Quite a push pull factor.
The standard contract is ok for single guy or girl to have a fair standard of living but is not even close to being enough to support a family. Are the company going to wait until all the good guys leave before they do anything to address this? I appreciate that we are adequately manned now but what is the cost replacing the talent that is walking out the door? Even the cadets are starting to leave and I suspect they were assumed to be life long loyal employees. What a shame to invest so much in time, money, resources and training Captain overtime to get this this far only for them to join our competition.
We are all aware of the companies financial predicament, mostly caused by the disastrous decisions made in fuel hedging. If the 2017 $6.4bn HKD loss to fuel hedge was taken out of our results we would be sat on a $5bn HKD profit. The hedge will unwind over the next year or 2 and we should be in a much better place regardless of the efficiencies that are belatedly being sought.
I desperately hope the company understand the costs of losing "Our People' and the expenses that will be incurred to replace them. Not to mention the free trained and experienced talent that will help our competitors to further reduce their cost base and give them the continued ability to attack our yield. A raise in Special Allowance is long overdue. A cost of inflation pay rise on the basic would help people survive until better times ahead when we can all share the bounties of our hard work.
The standard contract is ok for single guy or girl to have a fair standard of living but is not even close to being enough to support a family. Are the company going to wait until all the good guys leave before they do anything to address this? I appreciate that we are adequately manned now but what is the cost replacing the talent that is walking out the door? Even the cadets are starting to leave and I suspect they were assumed to be life long loyal employees. What a shame to invest so much in time, money, resources and training Captain overtime to get this this far only for them to join our competition.
We are all aware of the companies financial predicament, mostly caused by the disastrous decisions made in fuel hedging. If the 2017 $6.4bn HKD loss to fuel hedge was taken out of our results we would be sat on a $5bn HKD profit. The hedge will unwind over the next year or 2 and we should be in a much better place regardless of the efficiencies that are belatedly being sought.
I desperately hope the company understand the costs of losing "Our People' and the expenses that will be incurred to replace them. Not to mention the free trained and experienced talent that will help our competitors to further reduce their cost base and give them the continued ability to attack our yield. A raise in Special Allowance is long overdue. A cost of inflation pay rise on the basic would help people survive until better times ahead when we can all share the bounties of our hard work.
Last edited by HKbuspilot; 14th Mar 2018 at 14:55. Reason: Speiling and grandma
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Captain8. The mainline legacy carriers still pay good salaries and provide desirable benefits. Pilots who respect their worth will always find themselves in those jobs. As for the LCC's, they will find that the pilot shortage gets worse and worse, and they too will improve the pay and benefits. Carriers like CX will find that no one commits to them anymore. They will spin their wheels training and retraining pilot after pilot as the exodus becomes unmanageable. RH and AT, two managers who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. They will be swept away by the tide of demographic history that is now enveloping the industry. Blind and foolish, that is all they are.
“until better times ahead when we can all share the bounties of our hard work.”
Now that is funny! If you haven’t noticed, “we” are not included when the bonuses and profit share are calculated! Swire only for that bounty!
You will however be lauded with some shiny new A321’s to keep you happy and they will throw in a HUD, fuel dump capability and other options they cannot refuse (a’la A50) but have to justify by saying the pilot force “wanted” them!
Enjoy the HUD and your downtrodden peasant life, pilot scum!
Now that is funny! If you haven’t noticed, “we” are not included when the bonuses and profit share are calculated! Swire only for that bounty!
You will however be lauded with some shiny new A321’s to keep you happy and they will throw in a HUD, fuel dump capability and other options they cannot refuse (a’la A50) but have to justify by saying the pilot force “wanted” them!
Enjoy the HUD and your downtrodden peasant life, pilot scum!
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Too true. It's sad but predictable that you can entice the younger and less experienced pilots with the 'allure' of the shiny jet syndrome. Of course, they eventually wake up and realise how they have been used. The only difference is that in today's aviation business environment, the number of pilots available to be 
around is reducing dramatically. Soon, most of the LCC's and many mainline carriers that abuse their pilots (CX) will find they have no pilots, and many parked aircraft. 
around is reducing dramatically. Soon, most of the LCC's and many mainline carriers that abuse their pilots (CX) will find they have no pilots, and many parked aircraft.
This year, three or four KA captains have resigned. C scalers are pinning their hopes that this higher than normal attrition will see their lot improved.
I hope it does! But I doubt it.
B scalers are leaving which the company probably wants. C scalers and local pilots are not. If C scalers and locals are not leaving, the HR response I've heard is the allowance is pitched too high. Now you can refer to yourself as talent and believe all that manipulative empowerment on yammer and company magazines, but until you or your mates leave in droves, your pay won't improve.
And when a C scale F/O departs, without having the stomach for an upgrade, it isn't talent departing, it's a liabilty. C scale captains have to flock to those fantastic contracts in China being bandied about the flight deck for any significant consequence.
I hope it does! But I doubt it.
B scalers are leaving which the company probably wants. C scalers and local pilots are not. If C scalers and locals are not leaving, the HR response I've heard is the allowance is pitched too high. Now you can refer to yourself as talent and believe all that manipulative empowerment on yammer and company magazines, but until you or your mates leave in droves, your pay won't improve.
And when a C scale F/O departs, without having the stomach for an upgrade, it isn't talent departing, it's a liabilty. C scale captains have to flock to those fantastic contracts in China being bandied about the flight deck for any significant consequence.
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Really
“until better times ahead when we can all share the bounties of our hard work.”
Now that is funny! If you haven’t noticed, “we” are not included when the bonuses and profit share are calculated! Swire only for that bounty!
You will however be lauded with some shiny new A321’s to keep you happy and they will throw in a HUD, fuel dump capability and other options they cannot refuse (a’la A50) but have to justify by saying the pilot force “wanted” them!
Enjoy the HUD and your downtrodden peasant life, pilot scum!
Now that is funny! If you haven’t noticed, “we” are not included when the bonuses and profit share are calculated! Swire only for that bounty!
You will however be lauded with some shiny new A321’s to keep you happy and they will throw in a HUD, fuel dump capability and other options they cannot refuse (a’la A50) but have to justify by saying the pilot force “wanted” them!
Enjoy the HUD and your downtrodden peasant life, pilot scum!
If you doubt this, watch all the shiny new A21's show up with HUD's.. Bet's anyone ??
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It is more or less a "requirement" by the CAAC for new AC
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Seriously, who would be "enticed" by a 321? Haha, would be like enticing a formula one driver with a drive on the "John Deere" team... HKA will have half a decade of experience with NEOs before Dragon see their first one. No one will be applying just to fly a 1980s aircraft with some new bits bolted on. The only ones excited about the NEO coming are the managers who get to ferry them, the rest of us just cant wait for our learners world "type" endorsement.
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The KA Neo's dun have the ACT ( additional centre tanks) fitted.
Therefore no chance of any reasonable attempt at medium to long haul.
The rest of the industry, however, are buying up the Neo's and 737 Max to do narrow body long haul. For those with foresight, Its going to be the way forward. Free wifi that works, and the 20 something brigade are happy as larry. No need food. Wifi, omg yes!
So, KA are again , stuck in the past. They show little vision, ultra conservative stick in the muds, who deservedly are being surpassed by their rivals.
I' m happy to take my salary, housing and run. Ive NFI how long I can be in this place though. Sell the house, make a mega buck.
Its also bloody amusing that as someone said earlier, the C scalers are not leaving and therefore the management surmise that the allowance is too high. However, as stated, the B scalers are retiring & resinging . Ironically , a C scale FO gets $21000 special allowance and stays, but a B scale FO gets $90000 plus and wants to leave . Ditto C/ B scale captains.
Is it Stockholm syndrome for our bearded C scalers?
Wot next, marrying their first local GF and having multi lingual sprogs?
Its a la dee lah place hk, never believe what a pilot tells you. Never take anyone's advice. Then you'll be fine. Maybe.
Therefore no chance of any reasonable attempt at medium to long haul.
The rest of the industry, however, are buying up the Neo's and 737 Max to do narrow body long haul. For those with foresight, Its going to be the way forward. Free wifi that works, and the 20 something brigade are happy as larry. No need food. Wifi, omg yes!
So, KA are again , stuck in the past. They show little vision, ultra conservative stick in the muds, who deservedly are being surpassed by their rivals.
I' m happy to take my salary, housing and run. Ive NFI how long I can be in this place though. Sell the house, make a mega buck.
Its also bloody amusing that as someone said earlier, the C scalers are not leaving and therefore the management surmise that the allowance is too high. However, as stated, the B scalers are retiring & resinging . Ironically , a C scale FO gets $21000 special allowance and stays, but a B scale FO gets $90000 plus and wants to leave . Ditto C/ B scale captains.
Is it Stockholm syndrome for our bearded C scalers?
Wot next, marrying their first local GF and having multi lingual sprogs?
Its a la dee lah place hk, never believe what a pilot tells you. Never take anyone's advice. Then you'll be fine. Maybe.
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Perhaps with the HUD, they won't be flying practice NDB approaches into 3rd world countries in the middle of the night and then filing ASR's because the u/s NDB wasn't notamed!
FFS... passengers pay for safety, not for Clowns to be testing new recruits on non precision approaches, into sh$tholes, during WOCL.
Fx
FFS... passengers pay for safety, not for Clowns to be testing new recruits on non precision approaches, into sh$tholes, during WOCL.
Fx
Last edited by Feather Boa; 15th Mar 2018 at 13:28.
