Time to upgrade to FO and CN at Cathay
34 years to command a QF A380? That's an interesting lie.
QF invented Jetstar which then took all expansion for 12 years, and their idealogical bent was to deny any QF pilots the opportunity to transfer for upgrades, etc.
Current projections, due to the missing cadre the lost decade caused and upcoming retirements are three years average S/O (with some pilots getting 737 F/O within a few weeks of joining).
A new joiner can probably expect 6 years as a 737 F/O before becoming a widebody F/O and then narrowbody command a few years later. 737 captains can educate their normally aspirated (no mask required) children and afford a 7000 sq ft joint within an hour of their base. Note that's seven thousand square feet.
Seniority is honoured, and change of fleets, even within rank, is not limited except voluntary downbidding is discretionary.
Sure it'll take longer for a widebody command...maybe 20 years give or take. That's the nature of legacy carriers with a large domestic network.
QF will probably be locked into a cyclical hiring pattern now that they have set the stage that way. My estimates are only true for people being hired in the next two years. Be guided accordingly:/
QF invented Jetstar which then took all expansion for 12 years, and their idealogical bent was to deny any QF pilots the opportunity to transfer for upgrades, etc.
Current projections, due to the missing cadre the lost decade caused and upcoming retirements are three years average S/O (with some pilots getting 737 F/O within a few weeks of joining).
A new joiner can probably expect 6 years as a 737 F/O before becoming a widebody F/O and then narrowbody command a few years later. 737 captains can educate their normally aspirated (no mask required) children and afford a 7000 sq ft joint within an hour of their base. Note that's seven thousand square feet.
Seniority is honoured, and change of fleets, even within rank, is not limited except voluntary downbidding is discretionary.
Sure it'll take longer for a widebody command...maybe 20 years give or take. That's the nature of legacy carriers with a large domestic network.
QF will probably be locked into a cyclical hiring pattern now that they have set the stage that way. My estimates are only true for people being hired in the next two years. Be guided accordingly:/
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The usual B/S.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible.
I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible.
I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MorningCoffee. Trust a Swire management lackey to dig himself a hole that deep. Why don't you hunker down in your cubicle and start designing flight attendants trousers? Either that or you can run and get Anna a cup of tea. 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MC, you and the rest of your Swire incompetents seem caught up in this 'wide body command' thing. Let me educate you a bit: the reality of the job (especially here at CX) is that working for this company is so miserable, it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT AIRCRAFT WE FLY. I would rather be a 787 Captain back in Europe being home at most nights, living in a nice home in the country, going to the pub on weekends and generally living a 'real' life (and seeing my wife happy and the kids not getting serious illnesses). Not scraping by here in HK, living in a shoebox, being abused by management every single week of the year and generally wasting away life trying to satisfy the likes of people like you. Needless to say, there is a MUCH better life to be had nearly anywhere else in this industry either than here. You and your like have destroyed the pilot profession in HK, and have managed to destroy the airline as well.
Last edited by Trafalgar; 31st Mar 2018 at 01:48.
The usual B/S.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible.
I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible.
I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable.
The Sydney Harbour Bridge is just about an hour away from the airport, but no, I live near one of the four other bases. Downtown living is great when you are young, but not optimum for child rearing.
I fly the 330. I am away from my home approximately 200 hours every month.
You?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Australopithecus. Thanks for taking the time to counter the propaganda that our management are attempting to manipulate our younger pilots with. MorningCoffee being a serial offender. Happy flying, Traf.
Cheers Traf. The only difference between our two carriers is mine has to deal with slightly stronger laws and much stronger public opinion. Same stupid management tricks otherwise.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hence, my point! Don’t forget that a CX widebody command pays captain 1 salary, which is barely more than an FO at the top of the pay scale makes. No big jump like at real airlines. CX basically pays narrow body pay for widebody command until at least captain year 8 or so. Of course, current CX upgrades are running at 11 years and climbing rapidly. Will be 13-14 years for 2008 hires.
What does say a fourth yr Capt on a 330 make? At my carrier a 4th yr capt 737 80 hrs month makes about what he'd make on a 330, although flying many more sectors
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course all this needs to be tempered by the cost of living in Hong Kong. That needs to be tempered by lower tax rate, potential for 13th month, and any housing and education allowances. Housing and education are astronomically priced.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Here
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MorningCoffee, 32 years to command at BA is a total nonsense. I'm on the 777 at BA and command on type is about 20 years, yes still a long time but nothing like what you say. Command on an A320 probably 10 years.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The big difference is freedom of choice. Want an early command on an unpopular fleet or prefer to wait in the right seat on a LH fleet? In BA & QF you can do this. In CX there’s no such thing as choice. Join on the 747 & fly a freighter roster for the rest of your life. And bases are over so it’s HK for your whole career now. HK’s good fun but for a few years but a lifetime in a shoebox breathing noxious fumes just doesn’t compare to life and a job in the real world.
About 131k hkd (16800 usd) per month. Add 10% to that for a full 84 credit hours (70+ hours block time). Then add 15.5% for retirement.
Of course all this needs to be tempered by the cost of living in Hong Kong. That needs to be tempered by lower tax rate, potential for 13th month, and any housing and education allowances. Housing and education are astronomically priced.
Of course all this needs to be tempered by the cost of living in Hong Kong. That needs to be tempered by lower tax rate, potential for 13th month, and any housing and education allowances. Housing and education are astronomically priced.
Housing is silly money in Syd and MEL, but not HK crazy. More western world average in PER, BNE or ADL.
We pay tax here...we mostly get good returns on that what with the pop density and clean air, water amd crops etc.
A 737 pilot makes a similar monthly pay to his or her contemporaries' on the 330 or 787.
There is no mandatory retirement age here...many pilots opt for a few years on the 737 after 65. 737 pilots get annual bonuses of perhaps an additional two-three weeks pay.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no doubt QF offers more and better career options than CX. Sure, you pay more tax, but that’s part of living in a civilized, 1st world country, which Hong Kong definitely is not. Hong Kong is more like 2nd world slipping backwards into the 3rd world that is mainland China.
At QF, you’ll also have a proper rostering system and the ability to bid between fleets, all based on seniority, not at Company whim born of spite and cost control.
In reality, one cannot really compare the two airlines because QF is a proper airline with a proper union and CX is a dinasour, nothing more than a relic of the past. CX doesn’t even hire real pilots anymore because so few are willing to come on the totally inadequate package, and we all know commuting at CX is completely impossible with unworkable rosters and ridiculous and expensive staff travel.
In short, CX has turned into the laughing stock of the industry. Any reputation to the contrary is just a blast from the past that in no way represents the current reality.
At QF, you’ll also have a proper rostering system and the ability to bid between fleets, all based on seniority, not at Company whim born of spite and cost control.
In reality, one cannot really compare the two airlines because QF is a proper airline with a proper union and CX is a dinasour, nothing more than a relic of the past. CX doesn’t even hire real pilots anymore because so few are willing to come on the totally inadequate package, and we all know commuting at CX is completely impossible with unworkable rosters and ridiculous and expensive staff travel.
In short, CX has turned into the laughing stock of the industry. Any reputation to the contrary is just a blast from the past that in no way represents the current reality.