Time to upgrade to FO and CN at Cathay
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depends what fleet you are on, will probably become difficult with the new rostering program they will be using soon. Putting a single day of reserve in the middle of a block of days off so you can't go anywhere
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This thread is an eye opener. I was thinking of applying for a SO position and I might still do it, but it would only be gain some widebody experience. I will try to follow how things evolve at CX and possibly apply in future as FO and consider CX as a long term career option in the unlikely event time to command reduces to less than 10 years. I want career progression.
haha just listened to a 3 year s/o whine that this very day he discovered that his upgrade now wont happen til 2021.....another 3 years of having no hours count towards ****....the p2X rating means nothing ....its not a rating your experience is nothing that is tradeable....I felt sad for a second then that moment passed....he was the one said he wanted the shiny jet future....just didnt realize till right then what he got himself into.....what a moment watching some realize what they have bought into this **** outfit.
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haha just listened to a 3 year s/o whine that this very day he discovered that his upgrade now wont happen til 2021.....another 3 years of having no hours count towards ****....the p2X rating means nothing ....its not a rating your experience is nothing that is tradeable....I felt sad for a second then that moment passed....he was the one said he wanted the shiny jet future....just didnt realize till right then what he got himself into.....what a moment watching some realize what they have bought into this **** outfit.
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haha just listened to a 3 year s/o whine that this very day he discovered that his upgrade now wont happen til 2021.....another 3 years of having no hours count towards ****....the p2X rating means nothing ....its not a rating your experience is nothing that is tradeable....I felt sad for a second then that moment passed....he was the one said he wanted the shiny jet future....just didnt realize till right then what he got himself into.....what a moment watching some realize what they have bought into this **** outfit.
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Many hundreds more just like him. The worst part is that these guys believe the office workers in HR over what they read here. Surely they know better deep down, but the hope springs eternal. Shiny jets, big money in HK! Reality is pollution covered jets (and lungs) and the most expensive city in the world, but they just won’t listen. Idiots!!!
Just goes to show, you can not help stupid.
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It’s like getting a job paying $20-25 USD an hour and thinking you’re making big bucks because grew up in Kansas. The only catch is that the job is in NYC, and $25 an hour there has a person living like a pauper.
Same in HK! Are you listening all you starry eyed boys and girls? The local CX package in HK has you living like a pauper, and no, you have zero chance of ever getting a base in your home countries. Bases are for expensive, expat pilots. You are cheap! Your place is in HK.
I don’t know if bases will ever open again, but if they do, it will only be to get the expats out of HK. After that, they’ll be closed up so tight it would take an act of God to open them again.
Same in HK! Are you listening all you starry eyed boys and girls? The local CX package in HK has you living like a pauper, and no, you have zero chance of ever getting a base in your home countries. Bases are for expensive, expat pilots. You are cheap! Your place is in HK.
I don’t know if bases will ever open again, but if they do, it will only be to get the expats out of HK. After that, they’ll be closed up so tight it would take an act of God to open them again.
Last edited by cxorcist; 20th Mar 2018 at 14:54.
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And then after 11 years some manager decide that he don’t like something he miss read on your file and Cat D you. You will not get the opportunity to explain or defend yourself.
And by then it will be to late to start somewhere else.
And by then it will be to late to start somewhere else.
And let’s face it the HR people know ALL about airline ops !!!! Not
That generic ‘people mover’ degree isn’t worth the parchment it’s written on yet they excel at making folks miserable.
That generic ‘people mover’ degree isn’t worth the parchment it’s written on yet they excel at making folks miserable.
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Was chatting with a NJer yesterday and informing him that his command is probably 15-20 years off. His reply was that that timeframe is reasonable for a legacy carrier. To which I replied, CX is NOT a legacy carrier.
Nothing about CX is “legacy” except for its history. CX is a shell of its former self, no better than any number of Asian carriers on the passenger side and most like an ACMI carrier (Atlas/Polar/Southern) on the cargo side. CX is a far cry from AA, AC, DL, or UA. Nowhere close to a FedEx or UPS. Doesn’t treat its emplyees nearly as well as Southwest. Has none of the prestige or career paths of SQ, QF, BA, LH, or AF/KLM. In short, CX is just another crappy contract job in Asia. Any $ allure is completely negated by the cost of living in HK, but try explaining that to someone in their twenties or early thirties working regional or LCC jobs...
This is the lie WE are up against.
Nothing about CX is “legacy” except for its history. CX is a shell of its former self, no better than any number of Asian carriers on the passenger side and most like an ACMI carrier (Atlas/Polar/Southern) on the cargo side. CX is a far cry from AA, AC, DL, or UA. Nowhere close to a FedEx or UPS. Doesn’t treat its emplyees nearly as well as Southwest. Has none of the prestige or career paths of SQ, QF, BA, LH, or AF/KLM. In short, CX is just another crappy contract job in Asia. Any $ allure is completely negated by the cost of living in HK, but try explaining that to someone in their twenties or early thirties working regional or LCC jobs...
This is the lie WE are up against.
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So, 15-20 years BEFORE becoming a captain. Dealing with CX management rubbish, and constant cuts to your pay and benefits. Wow, that sounds like a GREAT career decision. Don't worry cxorcist, most people aren't even turning up for the interviews anymore. Additionally, just spoke to a DEFO, and he told me he's leaving next month as he can't stand anything about CX, it's culture and certainly not its management.
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Just a thought. Trainers with a DEFO they too get disillusioned as the trainee tells them the lies that brought them to cx and how quick they wish to leave. Why bother explaining and waisting your breath? Time To Weep.
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I think 15-20 years to command for new hires is very optimistic. There are approx. 230 2007 pilot hires on the seniority list. I believe none of those are on command course. Considering 10 command courses this year and who knows how many in the coming years the math is quite simple. If we consider around 80 command courses a year (from 2019 on) this would result in that an early 2007 hire can expect now a command course at around 11.5 - 12. 5 years and a late 2007 hire can potentially look at 15.5 years to command.
This does not take all the CAT A'd pilots into account who deferred their command course and who are waiting for a B777 course.
I believe there were no new hires in 2009 and only a limited amount in 2010. So time to command for 2008 hires would increase, worst case up to 18 years, while 2010 hires see a decrease in time to command and from then on time to command would increase again.
Also to consider is that CX hired (since approx. 2005) more pilots per year then offering command courses per year. Sometimes by a factor of four if taken an average of 80 command courses per year into account.
But maybe I am wrong and CX is able to offer 200 command courses per year and time to command will come down.
This does not take all the CAT A'd pilots into account who deferred their command course and who are waiting for a B777 course.
I believe there were no new hires in 2009 and only a limited amount in 2010. So time to command for 2008 hires would increase, worst case up to 18 years, while 2010 hires see a decrease in time to command and from then on time to command would increase again.
Also to consider is that CX hired (since approx. 2005) more pilots per year then offering command courses per year. Sometimes by a factor of four if taken an average of 80 command courses per year into account.
But maybe I am wrong and CX is able to offer 200 command courses per year and time to command will come down.
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I think 15-20 years to command for new hires is very optimistic. There are approx. 230 2007 pilot hires on the seniority list. I believe none of those are on command course. Considering 10 command courses this year and who knows how many in the coming years the math is quite simple. If we consider around 80 command courses a year (from 2019 on) this would result in that an early 2007 hire can expect now a command course at around 11.5 - 12. 5 years and a late 2007 hire can potentially look at 15.5 years to command.
This does not take all the CAT A'd pilots into account who deferred their command course and who are waiting for a B777 course.
I believe there were no new hires in 2009 and only a limited amount in 2010. So time to command for 2008 hires would increase, worst case up to 18 years, while 2010 hires see a decrease in time to command and from then on time to command would increase again.
Also to consider is that CX hired (since approx. 2005) more pilots per year then offering command courses per year. Sometimes by a factor of four if taken an average of 80 command courses per year into account.
But maybe I am wrong and CX is able to offer 200 command courses per year and time to command will come down.
This does not take all the CAT A'd pilots into account who deferred their command course and who are waiting for a B777 course.
I believe there were no new hires in 2009 and only a limited amount in 2010. So time to command for 2008 hires would increase, worst case up to 18 years, while 2010 hires see a decrease in time to command and from then on time to command would increase again.
Also to consider is that CX hired (since approx. 2005) more pilots per year then offering command courses per year. Sometimes by a factor of four if taken an average of 80 command courses per year into account.
But maybe I am wrong and CX is able to offer 200 command courses per year and time to command will come down.
Also, many more senior FOs whom have bypassed command waiting for a 777 course or other personal reasons are taking courses now on the Airbus. With the all the A350s coming, the fleet isn’t nearly as bad as it once was. Yet, if you’re a captain stuck on the 747, tough luck! Didn’t you know you were hired by Connie Pacific?
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GTC58
We have averaged 200 recruits pa for last 8 years including this year's plan. We have averaged 65 commands pa for last 8 years including this year's plan.
DEFOs
Rumours abound about SAA pilots coming here. For any budding DEFOs regardless of where you come from, please be aware of a couple of facts. I don't want to comment on the politics/acceptance of taking the job, just the harsh reality of it - in terms of roster/lifestyle and basings.
YOU WILL BE GETTING THE WORST ROSTERS for at least 5-8 years after getting here because you will be, and will remain, the most junior FOs bidding for roster choices. There will be somewhere between 550-800 SOs senior to you who will be upgraded over that time period. Every SO that upgrades to FO is senior to you in terms of roster bidding/bases/lifestyle choices.
If you are told you will likely get a basing - you are being misled. There are 100s and 100s of pilots who want bases. They will all be senior to you.
Time to upgrade was 10.5 years - it will blow out to 15+++ years due to the bulge of recruits over the last 10 years. I was told time to command was 3-4 years, but might blow out to 6-7 years. I got mine in 9 years.
So whether you take the job or not - at least be aware of what will really happen and not the 'half truths' you might be told in the recruitment process.
PM me if you want more details
DEFOs
Rumours abound about SAA pilots coming here. For any budding DEFOs regardless of where you come from, please be aware of a couple of facts. I don't want to comment on the politics/acceptance of taking the job, just the harsh reality of it - in terms of roster/lifestyle and basings.
YOU WILL BE GETTING THE WORST ROSTERS for at least 5-8 years after getting here because you will be, and will remain, the most junior FOs bidding for roster choices. There will be somewhere between 550-800 SOs senior to you who will be upgraded over that time period. Every SO that upgrades to FO is senior to you in terms of roster bidding/bases/lifestyle choices.
If you are told you will likely get a basing - you are being misled. There are 100s and 100s of pilots who want bases. They will all be senior to you.
Time to upgrade was 10.5 years - it will blow out to 15+++ years due to the bulge of recruits over the last 10 years. I was told time to command was 3-4 years, but might blow out to 6-7 years. I got mine in 9 years.
So whether you take the job or not - at least be aware of what will really happen and not the 'half truths' you might be told in the recruitment process.
PM me if you want more details