Really Top Guys Leaving
Point taken Freehills. Quite correct, AF was two low experience pilots and a resting Captain. CX is perhaps already there in the cruise phase. I was more thinking of the take off and landing phases which were traditionally the higher risk phases of flight.
Paradigm shift perhaps?
Paradigm shift perhaps?
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fast Track
KA now has fast track ex cadet 320/1 Captains who have just over 3500hrs total and are still in their 20s.
CX has RQ FOs who have a little over 1500hrs and will be flying with very low hour SOs.
CX has RQ FOs who have a little over 1500hrs and will be flying with very low hour SOs.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anyone thinks an AF447 accident can't happen at CX, they haven't really paid attention to the inexorable overall decline in the experience levels. Thirty years ago, you needed either significant military jet experience, or 4-5 thousand hours with jet time mandatory to get hired at CX. Now, we daily have flights with inexperienced FO's, and a newbie SO who quite often doesn't know his emergency memory items. I'm sure the paying public would love to know that when they are resting during the night over the North Pacific or the Himalayas, the experience level up front is frequently 20% of what it was those 30 years ago. Further, when the relief FO goes to the toilet, you can have a brand new SO, perhaps 21 yrs old, sitting there with a high likelihood of failing to know what to do if certain emergencies occur. This is not speculation. It is fact based on documented experience. CX management have allowed the safety of this airline to diminish. Fact. And it is still declining.
Last edited by mngmt mole; 16th Feb 2018 at 13:00.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 1st Floor
Age: 33
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not the hours specifically but the exposure. Ex Military have in general, low hours vs years of service. But not many bunks on an F18.
Not many bunks inKA. Its hard graft, 35 sector months. So why should a 3500 hour guy not have a command?
Its not like they need global experience. KA is a niche. Once mastered , is fairly routing. And that again is a threat .
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 67
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the fleet office. There has been a pilot leaving Cathay every day for the last two months and the spike has the management concerned. Especially as Qantas and Virgin recruiters arrive in HK next month
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hehe no surprise there....if u read the missive that managment put out stating our attrition rate was with some arbitary normal levels last year ....they stopped their numbers up till october or september if i remember....and since october everyone knows it aint be pretty.....
Once writing on the wall that this aint an airline to stay at....it takes a while for resignations to gather steam....this aint an interview and resign next week type of career....it takes planning, effort on all parties for the next recruitment. Once this snowball starts rolling if have a spike now......you just starting to peek over the hill when it just rushes out of control. Good job cx management.
Once writing on the wall that this aint an airline to stay at....it takes a while for resignations to gather steam....this aint an interview and resign next week type of career....it takes planning, effort on all parties for the next recruitment. Once this snowball starts rolling if have a spike now......you just starting to peek over the hill when it just rushes out of control. Good job cx management.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mngmt mole
Who can forget about the SO TCAS event? Just sat there didnt they?...not that its the SO fault....you just got that sort of exp with little idea that flying is inherently godamn dangerous...fat dumb happy flying shiny jet with piss poor managment gutted training.
Who can forget about the SO TCAS event? Just sat there didnt they?...not that its the SO fault....you just got that sort of exp with little idea that flying is inherently godamn dangerous...fat dumb happy flying shiny jet with piss poor managment gutted training.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the fleet office. There has been a pilot leaving Cathay every day for the last two months and the spike has the management concerned
His words were "it smacked of desperation"
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The truth of the new fleet forum format is one of deception. The managers know they are feeding those involved a pile of bull 
. I almost (almost) feel sorry for them, as they know that every one of us listening realises how pathetic and pointless it all is. I sat through this a couple of weeks ago. It would be funny if it wasn't so desperate and futile. It's too late. Most of the junior pilots I am flying with are actively looking for their next job. Most have either already applied, interviewed or are awaiting course dates. My FO earlier this week told me he was leaving, that his wife was already back home and that he was done with CX. The salient comment from him was this; he said nothing they told him now would make any difference. He would never trust them to be honourable, and just assumed every claim or promise was a lie. He's seen enough, and it had convinced him that CX was not worth the investment of his career, or his family's future. That was a quote. CX management have accomplished the destruction of not only an airline, but a culture. That is unforgivable.
. I almost (almost) feel sorry for them, as they know that every one of us listening realises how pathetic and pointless it all is. I sat through this a couple of weeks ago. It would be funny if it wasn't so desperate and futile. It's too late. Most of the junior pilots I am flying with are actively looking for their next job. Most have either already applied, interviewed or are awaiting course dates. My FO earlier this week told me he was leaving, that his wife was already back home and that he was done with CX. The salient comment from him was this; he said nothing they told him now would make any difference. He would never trust them to be honourable, and just assumed every claim or promise was a lie. He's seen enough, and it had convinced him that CX was not worth the investment of his career, or his family's future. That was a quote. CX management have accomplished the destruction of not only an airline, but a culture. That is unforgivable.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was literally arguing with one of our “managers” as he was feeding their latest batch of lies to the rank and file at fleet forum. Those guys working on the third floor are shameless promoters of CX deceit and the destruction of a once great airline from the inside out. They all go into it to “make things better” and end up becoming part of the problem. They know it, and we know it. That’s why NOBODY decent is putting their hands up for these jobs anymore, just FOs and pathetic self servers. I’d quit before I’d take one of those jobs.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reality is that not a single pilot in this airline has any illusions as to the lies they are being fed. Our managers have no credibility. They are representing a despotic and failed regime, and the pilots they purport to manage have already concluded that their best interests for a career lie elsewhere. Nothing will change the course of that outcome. It's already too late. It's probably also already too late for any of our managers to preserve their dignity.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fleet forum has always been a waste of time and a joke not worth laughing at. Third floor managers have always been clueless (except for a couple) as a result of never having worked for a real airline before this place. All RAF, RAAF, CAF, or any other airforce or some small shop airline nobody ever heard of. None of them know what a real airline runs like at the FOP level. None of them can be trusted. Director of flight ops isn't even a pilot let alone an ex-cx pilot so where do you even begin about the lack of knowledge and qualification for the job of leading troops whose jobs you never have performed and aren't capable of doing. (The incompetent NR not to be left out, I'm not just picking on the current DFO.) They all lie to your face. They always have. The core culture of this place is the culture of lie. I realized this over a decade ago and decided not to give a sh!t and keep my sanity. Why? My compensation package.
I put up with the fact that my seniority means nothing to them. (I was lied to about this issue at my interview). Direct entry captains hired into the left seat after my date of hire. It's always nice to fly with a junior captain, not. Inability to bid and hold my preferred fleet according to my seniority. No absolute respect for seniority = No good will on my part on any issue.
I accepted the fact that I will not receive training at this place and will have to survive on my knowledge and skills I already had which I had to keep sharp despite what cx called training and standardization (these things don't exist here). This meant I would not enjoy doing my job like as I once had before.
Or that my contract was not to be respected or worth the paper it's printed on except to point at when it suits cx.
Inability to request and receive my preferred roster according to my seniority and without incompetent human molestation due to cx insisting to do this process like it's still the 50's despite the fact that other airlines having been using such computerized systems providing this valuable lifestyle flexibility to their crews while at the same time have been saving a lot of money on manning levels... for the last 20 years!
I decided over a decade ago I’d stay because of my compensation package. I’m after all a mercenary. Like many others, here for the compensation. Hoping I could do better for myself and my loved ones, than I could back home. Apart from the regular sight of cx aircraft at my home airport with the old paint scheme, I hardly knew anything about cx. Like many others I grew up with a hunger about all things aviation and aerospace. Any airline peaked my interest and still does. I liked the shiny story of cx and decided that and the shiny package they offered at the time was worth coming here.
Any real pride, respect, loyalty to cx I brought with me was quickly chipped away. What was left of my expectations was the compensation package. But when it was announced that was to be reduced, then there’s nothing left of value to me at this place. There’s no price you can put on pride, loyalty, trust which result in good will. I can’t remember when was the last time I cared at all about fuel savings or other cost cutting measures. I simply don’t care. I haven’t given a sh!t all these years because my seniority has not been respected as mentioned above. All the money saved by pissing all over my seniority and many many others like me will never amount to what it has cost in lack of good will and it will continue to do so. Tell me to leave if I don’t like it. Fine. But that will not fix the problem of lack of good will. The one replacing me will quickly be just like me. It’s the best definition of stupidity to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Cx either has to pay more than others or be a more fulfilling enjoyable place to work at. Well, this is a sh!tty place to work at, it hasn’t kept up with pay and benefits of other airlines hiring and on top of that they want to take away from already lacking pay and benefits. They think people are working here because of any other reason than money. It’s sad and laughable at the same time. The only ones acting happy and fulfilled are the ones who come from places with little to no prospect of a better job so they fool themselves in believing they’re happy. What they really are is desperate and even they don’t have loyalty, good will and pride in cx. They just don’t have any other choice at the moment.
Time to what? Win? Nope. It’s time to leave. If you stay here, you lose.
I put up with the fact that my seniority means nothing to them. (I was lied to about this issue at my interview). Direct entry captains hired into the left seat after my date of hire. It's always nice to fly with a junior captain, not. Inability to bid and hold my preferred fleet according to my seniority. No absolute respect for seniority = No good will on my part on any issue.
I accepted the fact that I will not receive training at this place and will have to survive on my knowledge and skills I already had which I had to keep sharp despite what cx called training and standardization (these things don't exist here). This meant I would not enjoy doing my job like as I once had before.
Or that my contract was not to be respected or worth the paper it's printed on except to point at when it suits cx.
Inability to request and receive my preferred roster according to my seniority and without incompetent human molestation due to cx insisting to do this process like it's still the 50's despite the fact that other airlines having been using such computerized systems providing this valuable lifestyle flexibility to their crews while at the same time have been saving a lot of money on manning levels... for the last 20 years!
I decided over a decade ago I’d stay because of my compensation package. I’m after all a mercenary. Like many others, here for the compensation. Hoping I could do better for myself and my loved ones, than I could back home. Apart from the regular sight of cx aircraft at my home airport with the old paint scheme, I hardly knew anything about cx. Like many others I grew up with a hunger about all things aviation and aerospace. Any airline peaked my interest and still does. I liked the shiny story of cx and decided that and the shiny package they offered at the time was worth coming here.
Any real pride, respect, loyalty to cx I brought with me was quickly chipped away. What was left of my expectations was the compensation package. But when it was announced that was to be reduced, then there’s nothing left of value to me at this place. There’s no price you can put on pride, loyalty, trust which result in good will. I can’t remember when was the last time I cared at all about fuel savings or other cost cutting measures. I simply don’t care. I haven’t given a sh!t all these years because my seniority has not been respected as mentioned above. All the money saved by pissing all over my seniority and many many others like me will never amount to what it has cost in lack of good will and it will continue to do so. Tell me to leave if I don’t like it. Fine. But that will not fix the problem of lack of good will. The one replacing me will quickly be just like me. It’s the best definition of stupidity to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Cx either has to pay more than others or be a more fulfilling enjoyable place to work at. Well, this is a sh!tty place to work at, it hasn’t kept up with pay and benefits of other airlines hiring and on top of that they want to take away from already lacking pay and benefits. They think people are working here because of any other reason than money. It’s sad and laughable at the same time. The only ones acting happy and fulfilled are the ones who come from places with little to no prospect of a better job so they fool themselves in believing they’re happy. What they really are is desperate and even they don’t have loyalty, good will and pride in cx. They just don’t have any other choice at the moment.
Time to what? Win? Nope. It’s time to leave. If you stay here, you lose.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Here
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That’s why NOBODY decent is putting their hands up for these jobs anymore, just FOs and pathetic self servers. I’d quit before I’d take one of those jobs.