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USA Immigration crackdown

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

USA Immigration crackdown

Old 12th Feb 2018, 03:48
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 503
Us has Immigration Laws ???

If you're a Canuk (or other) working for CX in LAX/SFO you have zero to worry about.. Simply arrive from Mexico without a visa and stay in California, the nations newest "Sanctuary State". Why bother with a work visa, millions don't?

"US actually has immigration laws" = what a joke.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 03:55
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 49
Prior to the Trump administration, I'd agree 100%
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 03:59
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: az
Posts: 232
I donít think an ICE raid is a joke.

A Mexican and a Canadian worker are equal in terms of needing the right to work in the US. There are a lot of fat white chicks left, so hurry up and pick one for your green card before the Mexicans get them all.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 04:00
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 503
Vtwin

Location- "In a van down by the river" ? Are we talking the Rio Grande ?
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 04:06
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 503
airplaneridesrfun

Really, maybe we should ask the approx 12 MILLION "Illegal Aliens" presently in the US how many are Canadian..

If you're a Canuk, you'll be thrown out IMMEDIATLY, no questions asked. If you're from South of the Rio Grande, welcome to California, how may we help you.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 06:48
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 503
Curtain

There will be no more fines; our "People Dept" Leadership is on top of this issue as the Director has an extensive background in this area
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 06:59
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,614
Curtain, you may be correct, but the problem is that the days of 'fudging' the facts, truth, laws and the effect it has had on peoples lives (like the yanks who are stuck in HK) are effectively over. There is ample evidence that the whole NA base has been jury-rigged and is based on many cosy assumptions and falsehoods (if not outright illegality). This current enforcement action will upend many lives unfortunately, but the ultimate blame lies with a company that has for years acted as though the laws don't apply to them, whether in HK or overseas. The ones who get hurt are the employees and their families who trusted that a major employer would have a modicum of responsibility towards them and their welfare (Paris, Manchester...etc). This company is toxic, and the proof is evident every single day. Anyone who plans on risking their livelihood and their families security with this proven bunch of gangsters will rue the day...
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 08:23
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,696
I agree that an ICE raid is no joke. However, I believe the law may be on the side of non-Americans working in the US, specifically on ďforeign registered vesselsĒ. Vessels can be aircraft or ships, but I think this law was designed with ship crews in mind, specifically those commuting to crew ships from US ports.

One could argue that an airline job with more regular commuting is a different dynamic, especially considering reserve and other airline specifics. Do said employees retain the same employment protections as a US citizen, green card holder, or other approved visa worker? Do state specific laws apply to foreign nationals working in CA and other states?

These are questions that cut to the core of a global economy and workforce. Trump is certainly less friendly to foreign workers than was the previous administration. Yet, the issue would likely be determined in court if pursued. That said, Iím not sure CX would bother to spend money in court if the Feds pressed the issue, and that might be the beginning of the end of the US base.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 08:32
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,614
Well, it won't be you or I determining this. It will be ICE, and they apparently have been 'led' to the issue, by a person(s) who have a vested interest. The landscape has changed in the USA regarding immigration/work status. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

my 2c worth: I think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest that a permanent base of foreign workers, ostensibly taking jobs from Americans could be considered kosher. I don't know the answer, but it really doesn't pass the smell test. Imagine a bunch of Americans taking up all the OZ slots, or Frenchmen taking all the London slots (after Brexit ).

Last edited by Trafalgar; 12th Feb 2018 at 08:44.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 17:58
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 322
The hypocrisy of anyone who has drawn ICEís attention to the US base is unbelievable .
They were very happy to take up a work permit and residence in HK as a foreigner. But as soon as a base was set up in the US and they didnít have the seniority to hold it they went squealing to immigration about non green card holders being employed in the USA .
If they feel so strongly then they should have stayed in the USA instead of taking a job which could have gone to an Aussie , Brit , or South African .
I know this doesnít apply to a lot of the USA pilots who are great guys but the sense of entitlement from a few is unbelievable
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 18:16
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 49
Nonsense oriental flyer. HKG is open to everyone, all bases are currently shut to those who don’t have the right to work, not just the US bases. You also left out the part about legality. If there is nothing wrong with the current arrangement, then no one is disadvantaged, scrutiny brought to bear or not, except maybe US pilots. It’s hypocritical for you to squeal about the legal right to work at US bases only. It is also indefensible to knock anyone who doesn’t share your same sentiments regarding the laws of maybe their own country. How do you know this raid was due to only an American(s) pushing for it? Maybe it was a jealous exchange rate driven Canadian? Maybe even yourself? This might of come about other ways too.

Last edited by Vtwin; 12th Feb 2018 at 19:43.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 19:13
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 299
ICE is presently targeting many businesses in California. I doubt anyone reported CX to ICE to target their pilots. Every employee in SFO, ground staff, cabin crew and pilots were audited. CX just fit a certain profile which ICE wanted to audit.

Well, in regards of some posters being hypocritical, you all are aware that there are many US citizens on a Canadian base with no visa. I remember one American who took an early freighter command in YVR who was the most vocal to get Canadians kicked of the US base.
Now thats someone I would call hypocritical.

It also seems, most of the above posters are not familiar with the law in the US. California Supreme Court ruled a couple of years ago that all California laws, specifically discrimination laws, apply to undocumented immigrants. As such, employers can not discriminate against national origin regardless of status. Considering this ruling, CX might be already in non-compliance as they restrict Canadians to stay on base and in rank on the California bases, even though they are employed under a US CBA with US labour and discrimination law protections. In addition CX insisted since 93 that it is totally legal for Canadians to fly CX jets out of California bases and lets say ICE rules that this is not the case CX could be facing significant litigation in California by those affected.

Most Canadians on the US base are classified non-resident aliens as they live and commute from Canada. The same applies to Americans on the Canada base. There are provisions for this under NAFTA and US / Canada immigration laws. When CX onshored the US bases, there was significant time and money spent for US immigration lawyers to determine if Canadians can remain on the base. IMO ICE will just confirm this and the status quo remains.

Last edited by GTC58; 12th Feb 2018 at 19:38.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 19:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 49
Caught in a potential tug-of-war between CA and the Feds? Good luck with that going through Customs.
Working for this place really is a true pain in the ass...
How many Americans in Canada? 25 or as “many” as 5?

Last edited by Vtwin; 12th Feb 2018 at 20:06.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 20:26
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 299
How many Canadians in the US? Does it matter?
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 20:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a van down by the river.
Posts: 49
Many more than 5, and if they are there legally, then none of this matters.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 01:25
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 503
Traf

100% right on Traf.. The background experience and education of the now Dir of Peeps proves that. Swires don't want things done "properly" they want it done their way... The new top "Leadership" just announced will be exactly the same. It's a family trait thing that's been around for about 200 years.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 06:23
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 92
Itís all a moot point arguing over the legality. Bases are done. Over. Finished. Never to be seen again. Dying on the vine. Finito! Ended. Forever a thing of the past. A pipe dream. A foolís hope. A suckerís belief. Completely sunk. Anyone thinking differently is completely delusional. Anyone staying for a base is delusional. Anyone hoping for a base is hoping in vain. Bases are cooked.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 07:28
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,614
Not to mention having certain based pilots happy to ignore CC in HK, and help the company out with G day flying / discretion / joining training. The ironic thing about all of that is that they are cutting their own throats and those of their colleagues. Undermine the fight in HK (thereby enabling CX towards a cheaper HK cost basis), and you eventually get forced back to HK as they no longer need bases.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 13:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
I trust those joining training on a base and returning to Hong Kong will be banned from the HKAOA! Oh, of course not!
Hugo Peroni the IV is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 16:02
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 386
Read the c1D visa... foreign crew 29 days EACH visit... the word base is pure BS no matter what the company says. Nothing to say you can’t own a house and spend a week or so in the USA between trips.
No need to file tax either as days in the USA as a crew member count for ZERO towards tax residency.
They cocked it all up from the get go as usual !
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