The Latest Act of Desperation
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Not even going to get into the debate. All you need to do is correlate the number of retirements, the planned number of hires, the fact that the military is recalling thousands, and the fact that there has been a dearth of people learning to fly for 15-20 years. Even without the fact that I have it on good authority that it is being discussed by the airlines and the government, the facts mentioned above clearly say something drastic has to happen. I realise that you 'americans' don't like the idea of 'ferreners' coming over, but it will happen. They did it in the 1960's, so it's not a precedent being set.
Can you share your "good authority" with us ?
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You Cathay guys just can't help yourselves. Wow. Was it a perquisite to joining CX to 
as much as you do?
Glad you have it on "good authority" that it's going to happen. "Latest Act of Desperation" indeed... just from mngmt mole and his like. You got any financial advice while you're at it?
as much as you do? Glad you have it on "good authority" that it's going to happen. "Latest Act of Desperation" indeed... just from mngmt mole and his like. You got any financial advice while you're at it?
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A very good and long time friend is the head of training of a major US airline. I can confirm what MM is saying. Timeline unknown, but it will come to pass. As he mentioned, you only have to look at the facts of the industry and the manning situation to realise that such a move is more than likely. Not sure why such a suggestion is getting you guys so riled up. It's like you have a personal agenda that is at stake (oh, like management of our airline). 
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Yeah... sorry calling B.S. out on that too. No Legacy carrier, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx will ever be sponsoring foreign pilots. EVER. There will NEVER be a shortage of pilots at these carriers. But keep thinking otherwise, Air Profit!
There are a few regionals taking E3 visas from a few Aussies who are willing to whore themselves out at the expense of all other pilots, but that's as far as these foreign pilots will only go in the USA - the subpar regional level.
Like another poster said above, the above airlines all have 10,000+ applications on file, and that will never change. There will never be a shortage at that level.
Keep believing in your self importance however and how much the US really needs you... it is entertaining to read how completely out of touch you are in your CX bubble.
There are a few regionals taking E3 visas from a few Aussies who are willing to whore themselves out at the expense of all other pilots, but that's as far as these foreign pilots will only go in the USA - the subpar regional level.
Like another poster said above, the above airlines all have 10,000+ applications on file, and that will never change. There will never be a shortage at that level.
Keep believing in your self importance however and how much the US really needs you... it is entertaining to read how completely out of touch you are in your CX bubble.
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And we are all losing sleep over your calling a 'bs'. And your "10000" will prove to be about 1 yrs worth of actual available hires. Again, go and have a think about the actual facts of the demographic tidal wave that's about to hit the industry. Regardless, none of us really KNOW what is going to happen, even you.
And your "10000" will prove to be about 1 yrs worth of actual available hires. Again, go and have a think about the actual facts of the demographic tidal wave that's about to hit the industry. Regardless, none of us really KNOW what is going to happen, even you.
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It very well may happen at some point in the future, but I would be very surprised if it were ‘imminent’, certainly not with Trump in office. What it won’t do is change things materially at CX now. There is plenty of pilot hiring, both in the US and around the globe. If you want to leave CX, you can unless you are a SO with little to no previous time.
So in reality, those of us still here are simply finishing up our careers OR gambling against bad odds that CX will turn around its fortunes. The seniority system, ‘golden handcuffs’, and fear of change are the only things keeping reasonable pilots at CX.
Those coming in newly to CX are either using it to start their careers and leave OR are absolutely insane. There is very little that is good for a new hire at CX. It truly is a job of last resort and a place I could not in good conscience recommend to anyone.
So in reality, those of us still here are simply finishing up our careers OR gambling against bad odds that CX will turn around its fortunes. The seniority system, ‘golden handcuffs’, and fear of change are the only things keeping reasonable pilots at CX.
Those coming in newly to CX are either using it to start their careers and leave OR are absolutely insane. There is very little that is good for a new hire at CX. It truly is a job of last resort and a place I could not in good conscience recommend to anyone.
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cxorcist, completely agree. Very well put, and a warning to the wise. Anyone who comes here WILL regret that decision. Save yourselves the agony (especially if you are married) and establish a career with an employer deserving of your dedication and loyalty. CX is not that place. They will chew you up and spit you out.
Can you at least reveal the context in which your airline friend made his remarks ?
Was he merely musing on the potential need for expats at the US legacy level at some undefined point in the future...or saying there are processes now being put in motion with the appropriate government agencies to allow expats other than the Aussies' E3 demographic ?
Throw us some crumbs here !
Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd Feb 2018 at 16:49.
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He's the head of training for one of the US majors. All the US airlines have had preliminary discussions with the Government, laying out their concerns regarding replacing the record number of retirements about to hit the industry. There are not enough qualified pilots in the US to fill all the slots opening up over the next 5-10 yrs. I have no idea what the eventual outcome will be, or the timeline, but something has to happen with this issue in order for the US airline industry to continue to function.
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Air Profit
Wow, where to start. I know the command course at CX is about how well you can bullsh*t, but outside the Cathay bubble, it can be spotted a mile away. It's painful how ignorant you come across.
So there are secret meetings going on with The Big 3, Southwest, FedEx and Delta with the US Government about hiring foreigners, and your "friend" at an unnamed "major" and you are the only ones who know. Sounds legit.
As I'm sure you're aware, the above airlines have about 70,000 pilots. Let's be conservative and say 50% of of these pilots retire in the next 10 years, or 3,500 pilots a year.
The average compensation these days at these airlines in over 200K, topping out above 400K, with great work rules and retirement, etc. Do you really think they will not be able to find qualified Americans for these positions? Are they that undesirable?
I mean I know, the US has an almost non existent military, a tiny GA scene, and basically zero aviation universities. It's going to be extremely hard for them to recruit 3,500 pilots a year. Where are they going to come from? Thank goodness for CX pilots! Never mind all poorly qualified guys/girls with thousands and thousands of hours of TPIC airline time who have been waiting for years to get called by one of these airlines.
Maybe you should post on Yammer how CX better be careful before all their pilots get sponsored visas from the US Legacies, Air Profit! It would be par for the course with the rest of the garbage on there.
Wow, where to start. I know the command course at CX is about how well you can bullsh*t, but outside the Cathay bubble, it can be spotted a mile away. It's painful how ignorant you come across.
So there are secret meetings going on with The Big 3, Southwest, FedEx and Delta with the US Government about hiring foreigners, and your "friend" at an unnamed "major" and you are the only ones who know. Sounds legit.
As I'm sure you're aware, the above airlines have about 70,000 pilots. Let's be conservative and say 50% of of these pilots retire in the next 10 years, or 3,500 pilots a year.
The average compensation these days at these airlines in over 200K, topping out above 400K, with great work rules and retirement, etc. Do you really think they will not be able to find qualified Americans for these positions? Are they that undesirable?
I mean I know, the US has an almost non existent military, a tiny GA scene, and basically zero aviation universities. It's going to be extremely hard for them to recruit 3,500 pilots a year. Where are they going to come from? Thank goodness for CX pilots! Never mind all poorly qualified guys/girls with thousands and thousands of hours of TPIC airline time who have been waiting for years to get called by one of these airlines.
Maybe you should post on Yammer how CX better be careful before all their pilots get sponsored visas from the US Legacies, Air Profit! It would be par for the course with the rest of the garbage on there.
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Actually, you are both wrong. It is not all foreign pilots that will be permitted, just Canadians. Negotiators have often tried to have pilots exempted in a similar fashion to other professionals who are able to work in the U.S. but the ALPA lobbyists always made sure to squash it. Not so anymore. Canadian pilots will soon be welcome to live and work in the U.S. It's mostly inconsequential as the Canadian aviation labour market while healthy is small. It is pretty interesting for CX though. Plenty of Canadians in HK willing to go fly the freighter in exchange for being back in North Am...
quite sad to see this bickering, just like a bunch of kindergarten kids. I am pretty sure the people running airlines do not bicker like this but actually engage, constructively, to achieve mutual goals. They must love seeing this nonsense going on, divide and conquer at it's best.
When will the greater pilot group worldwide wake up?
When will the greater pilot group worldwide wake up?
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What does Trump have to do with refusing this? If there is no other way to crew planes with 1500-hour pilots, don't you think he wants the airlines, and the economy, to keep flying, too? Do you think CX, China and Korea actually want Americans flying there? Or do they need them?
Trump is the chief executive.
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Actually, you are both wrong. It is not all foreign pilots that will be permitted, just Canadians. Negotiators have often tried to have pilots exempted in a similar fashion to other professionals who are able to work in the U.S. but the ALPA lobbyists always made sure to squash it. Not so anymore. Canadian pilots will soon be welcome to live and work in the U.S. It's mostly inconsequential as the Canadian aviation labour market while healthy is small. It is pretty interesting for CX though. Plenty of Canadians in HK willing to go fly the freighter in exchange for being back in North Am...
Keep grasping at straws!
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What does Trump have to do with refusing this? If there is no other way to crew planes with 1500-hour pilots, don't you think he wants the airlines, and the economy, to keep flying, too? Do you think CX, China and Korea actually want Americans flying there? Or do they need them?
No doubt about it and it's been publicly covered. I didn't realize that's the talks to which you were referring.
The USAF and several major carriers (UAL & DL among them) here formed committees to examine this issue. I posted several articles somewhere in R & N discussing this.
To my knowledge, nothing definitive came of it all. The recent legislative effort to alter the 1500-hour law to get people in the system faster has fallen flat due to political wrangling. Not sure where that goes from here.
There's certainly pressure on the system. As far as I know, nothing definitive has been implemented to change the present course of events.
Seats WILL be filled here, I'm confident of that.
