HKG 07R Runway Incursion 23th Dec 1300Z
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HKG 07R Runway Incursion 23th Dec 1300Z
Does anyone bother looking out of the window nowadays?
soundcloud (dot) com/flywithsteven/vhhh-twr-south
I have a couple of problems with this incident
1. Why wasn't the ATCO not taken out of service after the runway incursion?
2. Did the ATCO not look outside when he issued the departure clearance to HKA333?
3. CX Cargo - The Pilot Monitoring really needs to go back and do his comm's ground school again or have his ICAO English LPR revoked! Totally unacceptable for a PPL Pilot, let alone an ATPL flight crew.
4. Did the CRK flight crew not look outside either? With 8K vis you can see the end of the runway.
VHHH 231230Z VRB01KT 8000 FEW040 21/13 Q1017 NOSIG
We're going to end up with a massive firework display just like the one in Tenerife one day!
soundcloud (dot) com/flywithsteven/vhhh-twr-south
I have a couple of problems with this incident
1. Why wasn't the ATCO not taken out of service after the runway incursion?
2. Did the ATCO not look outside when he issued the departure clearance to HKA333?
3. CX Cargo - The Pilot Monitoring really needs to go back and do his comm's ground school again or have his ICAO English LPR revoked! Totally unacceptable for a PPL Pilot, let alone an ATPL flight crew.
4. Did the CRK flight crew not look outside either? With 8K vis you can see the end of the runway.
VHHH 231230Z VRB01KT 8000 FEW040 21/13 Q1017 NOSIG
We're going to end up with a massive firework display just like the one in Tenerife one day!
Last edited by etops330; 24th Dec 2017 at 15:35.
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Shocker! Not. It will happen. CX has FOs so green and with such horrible English skills that an accident is truly inevitable. The worst part for CNs is that this turns the operation into single-seat piloting (or worse since you have to monitor the PM as PF) and fatigue becomes even more critical, especially as CMP will have us all working harder and closer to the FTLs. Will RH, AT, and DP be taking responsibility when it does happen? Absolutely NOT! It will be pinned on the pilots, who will very likely be dead anyhow, but it will be a fun venture for their surviving families living in a now very hostile HK. Sad.
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Well, this thread is less than 3 hours old, and that track is not showing up on the soundcloud website. Was it a CX airplane involved? That would explain a quick cover up.
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Prior to this happening I understand China Southern had an aircraft out of radio contact with tower for ten minutes. Also the dynasty had a medical emergency.
Big delays all round.
Big delays all round.
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I am sadly confident in saying this: It is only a matter of time before we are confronting a tragedy. And it's not only the poor language skills of some of the SO's, but the distraction, anger, frustration and futility evident in the attitude and demeanour of many of the aircrew in our cockpits today. Management take most of the responsibility for creating such a toxic and unsafe situation. To AT,DP,RH et al, you can be certain that when that day comes, I will be ensuring the focus is squarely on you and your complicity in that event.
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Correct Average Fool, however the multitude of embarrassing errors that lead to that point is the problem. Way too many holes in the cheese lined up, but luckily someone did do their job correctly.
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Why the subject controller was still on active duty for at least 30 min after the incident? During this 30 min, he still handled two RWY crossings! What was the Tower Supervisor doing at that time? In fact, did he/she know what had happened?
Good situational awareness was shown by the CX crew after hearing the controller had cleared the HKA to depart at the same time. The first transmission by the female pilot was misleading - "CX071 is clear RWY". It was only recovered by the male pilot - "CX071 is on the RWY crossing".
While the HKA crew had no situational awareness at all. They should know the Cathay was crossing the RWY. They did not query the departure clearance but instead started the take off roll. Only stopped after the CX crew blasted on the radio.
Two similar incidents in three months.
Good situational awareness was shown by the CX crew after hearing the controller had cleared the HKA to depart at the same time. The first transmission by the female pilot was misleading - "CX071 is clear RWY". It was only recovered by the male pilot - "CX071 is on the RWY crossing".
While the HKA crew had no situational awareness at all. They should know the Cathay was crossing the RWY. They did not query the departure clearance but instead started the take off roll. Only stopped after the CX crew blasted on the radio.
Two similar incidents in three months.
Last edited by AGNES; 25th Dec 2017 at 19:01.
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Zowie.
Lots of holes lining up.
It was good that the skipper (after hearing what was happening)--in plain english and assertively-- stated "we are NOT clear of the runway we are ON THE RUNWAY" at the right time and in a manner that could not be misunderstood. This helped avert an accident.
Stuff like this is what pilots get paid for and why experience and judgment is very important in this business.
Lots of holes lining up.
It was good that the skipper (after hearing what was happening)--in plain english and assertively-- stated "we are NOT clear of the runway we are ON THE RUNWAY" at the right time and in a manner that could not be misunderstood. This helped avert an accident.
Stuff like this is what pilots get paid for and why experience and judgment is very important in this business.
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My post was only sarcastic from a pilot perspective,
Management perspectiv?? Zero sarcasm.
That was downright scary.
The management are literally gambling with lives placing such experience levels in cockpits for the sake of cutting costs and boosting bonuses.
Management perspectiv?? Zero sarcasm.
That was downright scary.
The management are literally gambling with lives placing such experience levels in cockpits for the sake of cutting costs and boosting bonuses.
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That is an understatement. Bean counters have no ability to 'measure' experience. To them, Pilot 'A' costs more than Pilot 'B', therefore, Pilot 'A' must have his remuneration cut to that of Pilot 'B', or employ more pilots at the Pilot 'B' level, thinking that lower cost is good, regardless of experience. Cue eventual headline on the front page of SCMP. 
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AGNES
I’m not taking sides etc, however, saying a crew has good SA whereas the other crew didn’t. Doesn’t really fall into perspective.
Generally departing off 07R nowadays there a lot of waiting. 6-7 aircraft on H or J. Seems to me that when you’re cleared to line up, you have a little excitement spike in your SA, competing the check list, start lining up.
From J1 to J11 it’s around 3700m or so, at night, I doubt any bugger can see the aircraft starting or nearly crossed the end of the runway.
Yep, the CX crew at this point have a highest SA only due to the fact that they are crossing the runway and we’re cleared to. Hence. You’ll be alert of ‘cleared for takeoff runway 07R!
ATC have a significant element of blame here. As some one else mentioned, looking out the wondow does help, from a height. Out of the window 20ft up and 4K along a surface doesn’t too much.
Merry Christmas All.
I’m not taking sides etc, however, saying a crew has good SA whereas the other crew didn’t. Doesn’t really fall into perspective.
Generally departing off 07R nowadays there a lot of waiting. 6-7 aircraft on H or J. Seems to me that when you’re cleared to line up, you have a little excitement spike in your SA, competing the check list, start lining up.
From J1 to J11 it’s around 3700m or so, at night, I doubt any bugger can see the aircraft starting or nearly crossed the end of the runway.
Yep, the CX crew at this point have a highest SA only due to the fact that they are crossing the runway and we’re cleared to. Hence. You’ll be alert of ‘cleared for takeoff runway 07R!
ATC have a significant element of blame here. As some one else mentioned, looking out the wondow does help, from a height. Out of the window 20ft up and 4K along a surface doesn’t too much.
Merry Christmas All.
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Misunderstanding between clear and clear, she probably meant cleared to cross and not clear off the runway.
That's probably why at the age of autoland aircraft we still have windows in cockpit. Mistakes, Fatigue all part of ATC and pilots jobs and we accept it.
Hope we won't reach Chinese ATC standard where they won't line you up until aircraft has crossed to avoid the risk but then create big delays.
That's probably why at the age of autoland aircraft we still have windows in cockpit. Mistakes, Fatigue all part of ATC and pilots jobs and we accept it.
Hope we won't reach Chinese ATC standard where they won't line you up until aircraft has crossed to avoid the risk but then create big delays.