Housing left alone for a year
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A3301FD
But you will be the first to complain when your PC is cancelled and your recency runs out. And without the C&T guys there will be no more commands. Explain that to the hard working FO's who have been preparing so hard for months.
We are in this TOGETHER. Grow a pair and do as Traf says. Take individual control and action and stop picking on the C&T lads.
But you will be the first to complain when your PC is cancelled and your recency runs out. And without the C&T guys there will be no more commands. Explain that to the hard working FO's who have been preparing so hard for months.
We are in this TOGETHER. Grow a pair and do as Traf says. Take individual control and action and stop picking on the C&T lads.
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I don't think too many of the FO's and SO's are under any doubt that there is a short term price to be paid to help improve their overall career conditions. A delayed PC or check isn't the end of the world when you are in your 20's. The C andT members must decide what they are really made of. Nowhere to hide anymore. I know most of them and they are good people. Now they have to demonstrate that to the rest of the airline. To continue as before is NOT and option. The company's 13th month insult was a contempt too far.
Last edited by Trafalgar; 9th Dec 2017 at 02:46.
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Oh believe me, far more than ONE will resign. I have been communicating with many of them, and there is a consensus that what has just happened has crossed a very red line. The company deserves what is coming.
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Having witnessed confected outrage by pilot peers and tales of woe at bars and coffee shops around the networks, I have witnessed the same big talkers and noticed a mismatch between words and actions.
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Trafalgar,
Great posts and I hope that you are correct , but I do not see this as being limited to the C&T dept . Sure if the trainers walked en mass things would very quickly unravel . PC 's would become invalid and the individuals concerned would be unable to fly . So it's a double edged sword .
But I think it unfair to dump it all on the trainers ,whilst all the other crew members watch safely from the sidelines wringing their hands and applauding the trainers
We went through this in 99 and very few pilots were prepared to act , most capitulated and signed the new sign or be fired contract . Had the A scale pilots all stood outside kitty city and been fired at midday the entire airline would have come to a grinding halt , but CX would still have to pay the employed B scalers . How long would the stalemate have lasted a week possibly 2 ? I would have loved to see how CX would explain to the travelling public that they had fired all their captains hence the airline was no longer operational
But here we get to the crux of the matter . It's not entirely the trainers battle whilst everyone else sits safely on the sidelines it's every pilots battle to restore their Cos and careers . So if you are not prepared to risk it all then prepare for an ever degrading career .
If enough people rally to the flag and it's made very clear that anyone who crosses the line will be dealt with , this fight can be won here and now
Great posts and I hope that you are correct , but I do not see this as being limited to the C&T dept . Sure if the trainers walked en mass things would very quickly unravel . PC 's would become invalid and the individuals concerned would be unable to fly . So it's a double edged sword .
But I think it unfair to dump it all on the trainers ,whilst all the other crew members watch safely from the sidelines wringing their hands and applauding the trainers
We went through this in 99 and very few pilots were prepared to act , most capitulated and signed the new sign or be fired contract . Had the A scale pilots all stood outside kitty city and been fired at midday the entire airline would have come to a grinding halt , but CX would still have to pay the employed B scalers . How long would the stalemate have lasted a week possibly 2 ? I would have loved to see how CX would explain to the travelling public that they had fired all their captains hence the airline was no longer operational
But here we get to the crux of the matter . It's not entirely the trainers battle whilst everyone else sits safely on the sidelines it's every pilots battle to restore their Cos and careers . So if you are not prepared to risk it all then prepare for an ever degrading career .
If enough people rally to the flag and it's made very clear that anyone who crosses the line will be dealt with , this fight can be won here and now
Join Date: Aug 2008
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ENOUGH OF THIS PROPAGANDA!
Nobody is asking anybody to quit their job. The C&T's have the leverage to end this fast, without quitting their jobs. Nobody else does. The C&T's can easily, temporarily un-volunteer from the extra duties they have temporarily assumed for small, insufficient, extra pay in exchange for a whole lot of extra work and great responsibility. Doing so is not the same thing as resigning from their employment.
Nobody is asking anybody to quit their job. The C&T's have the leverage to end this fast, without quitting their jobs. Nobody else does. The C&T's can easily, temporarily un-volunteer from the extra duties they have temporarily assumed for small, insufficient, extra pay in exchange for a whole lot of extra work and great responsibility. Doing so is not the same thing as resigning from their employment.
TRAINING is VOLUNTARY!!! You don’t lose your job by ceasing to do it. FFS morons, you want to endure endless abuse and disrespect and train your much cheaper replacements. I’ve got no respect for those who refuse to fight back.
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Cxorcist, usually I agree with most of your postings and thoughts , but I certainly
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .
Last edited by joblow; 9th Dec 2017 at 17:49.
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Cxorcist, usually I agree with most of your postings and thoughts , but I certainly
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .
PS - It will always be dumb to train your cheaper replacements. I don’t care what the industrial climate is at the time.
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Letters hitting the offices this week. So far i've spoken personally with 12. Everyone of them has confirmed they are resigning in the coming days. They have spoken with a further significant number collectively, and the same response has been received. The carpet from the the lifts to the training office will be quite worn by the end of this week...
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I might add that the same individuals I have spoken with all seem to be quite run down, and are obviously coming down with something. A lot of sneezing and coughing during the conversations. If I was avmed, I think I would plan on being busy as well. My neighbour called in sick yesterday for 10 days. Rest and hopefully you'll feel better soon. 
I hope you are right Traf. As an ex Trainer, I remember being told that we represented Management. Training is a voluntary position which is fundamental to the good governance of the Airline. If the Training Dept has no confidence in the Management that they are supposed to represent, they must resign. Management then have to find a new group of Trainers who do have confidence in them.
Good luck with that. You reap what you sow....
Good luck with that. You reap what you sow....
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The C&T pilots have just received a letter stating that if they leave C&T, they will lose their training allowance/pay.
Now watch and see how many resign.
C&T have the leverage.
Capts and F/Os ARE taking care of it...GPs are very busy as of late.
Now watch and see how many resign.
C&T have the leverage.
Capts and F/Os ARE taking care of it...GPs are very busy as of late.
