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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:02   #1 (permalink)
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So no 13 th month for Captains

SO and FO capped up to 35k. But nothing for D level staff at all....so how you feel all about that fuel saving reti crap now guys.....shave that fuel just a bit more for a good kick to the balls......
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:24   #2 (permalink)
 
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Exactly.
So no more RETI, AZFW adjustments, discretion or landings to FO's, Jump seats only for other captains. This list is endless.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:25   #3 (permalink)
 
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Every boxer that gets in the ring believes they have a chance. AT and RH obviously feel pretty bold. Well, the boxing plan lasts as long as the first fist hits your face. CX management are about to realise that their plan is exactly that, a plan. The reality of the 'fight' is about to engulf them. Most of us didn't care about this company before. Now...we have a visceral hatred to focus on. That always help in a fight. We all know what we need to do, and we will be doing so. When this is over, the Swire's will be desperate to sell CX, and the public will never want to rely on us again. Sad, but that is the result this contemptuous decision today has guaranteed.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:30   #4 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
Every boxer that gets in the ring believes they have a chance. AT and RH obviously feel pretty bold. Well, the boxing plan lasts as long as the first fist hits your face. CX management are about to realise that their plan is exactly that, a plan. The reality of the 'fight' is about to engulf them. Most of us didn't care about this company before. Now...we have a visceral hatred to focus on. That always help in a fight. We all know what we need to do, and we will be doing so. When this is over, the Swire's will be desperate to sell CX, and the public will never want to rely on us again. Sad, but that is the result this contemptuous decision today has guaranteed.
just wait till you hear Friday's news too...
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:32   #5 (permalink)
 
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I'm sure. I guess they don't want any aircraft flying over the holidays. Glad to be almost done with this lot of cretins.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:34   #6 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by checklistcomplete View Post
Exactly.
So no more RETI, AZFW adjustments, discretion or landings to FO's, Jump seats only for other captains. This list is endless.
Are you serious? No JS for FO's, it's not their fault they got a small percentage of their 13 month. Try attacking the real enemy not your colleagues!
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:50   #7 (permalink)
 
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CXKA - did you once, but ONCE, ever consider what your C-Scale would lead to? You didn't. You thought of yourself. Most of or all of your C-Scale colleagues also thought of themselves without regard for what accepting a contract that would have undeniable and now proven affects on the real pilots at CX. (Yes, you read right..) Many as I understand it also vote that same way in AOA polls.

So whilst you thought of yourself, the AOA GC thought of themselves as at the time they ignorantly and pathetically didn't see C-Scale affecting them personally, why not allow those who've felt the brunt of the remuneration package you saw as a "great opportunity" collectively look after themselves? You did. You do. So now may they.

Relax though kid.... Sooner than later they'll be quitting and moving on. If you're lucky maybe to even train you as their cheap replacements! Then when D-Scale comes in you too will be scratching your head and saying "Only C-Scalers get to pay for their own food own board! You D-Scale s.o.b's can bring your own tea bags!!"

But of course, it'll never happen to you.... Maybe you'll be proud of the D-Scale "fresh enthusiasm" they'll bring too?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:57   #8 (permalink)
 
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Guys. Colleagues are NOT the enemy. Management want to play us against each other. Don't bite. Everyone plan to take their own personal action over the coming weeks. Do what is necessary to insist on the respect due. That is all it will take to see an immediate improvement in all our conditions. Stay focused on the real enemy.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 9th Dec 2017 at 07:52.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:59   #9 (permalink)
 
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Divide and Conquer. Swire 101
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:00   #10 (permalink)
 
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Yes. Time to throw away that textbook.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:03   #11 (permalink)
 
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This discussion has nothing to do with A,B,C its about not penalizing your colleagues for the problems caused by our management.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:29   #12 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by checklistcomplete View Post
Exactly.
So no more RETI, AZFW adjustments, discretion or landings to FO's, Jump seats only for other captains. This list is endless.
This is a terrible attitude to have. You should be ashamed of yourself.
SOí s and FOís are welcome to have the jumpseat as Iím sure most of us CApt will allow.
As for landing you can have all of mine.

But this is the divide and conquer method they use.
I urge the senior guys now not to let it slip.
There ways we will get our 13th month.
Maybe we will enjoy it on a beach .....
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:30   #13 (permalink)
 
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CXKA - did you once, but ONCE, ever consider what your C-Scale would lead to? You didn't. You thought of yourself. Most of or all of your C-Scale colleagues also thought of themselves without regard for what accepting a contract that would have undeniable and now proven affects on the real pilots at CX. (Yes, you read right..)
So let me get this right ChinaBeached, you are saying that for the C-Scalers should have rejected the contract offer to join an airline, post 9/11 when no one was hiring and the industry was suffering. These guys and girls should have turned down the chance of a paid flying job in order to ensure that you could maintain your salary and benefits. So in that scenario, you would be fine and some kid with no backing or savings would take one for the team and continue to be unemployed?

Presuming you are an A-Scaler, or god forbid, a hypocritical B-Scaler, why didnít you put up more of a fight when you were within the system? Why did you allow the C-Scale to be offered in the first place? Oh thatís right...because at the time it was probably a bit too much of a pain in the rear to fight against something that didnít materially affect you there and then. Now that it has, its those selfish youngsters who should have turned down a job offer in a market where very few jobs were going.

Also, Iím guessing you came out of the womb with 4 bars on your umbilical cord right?? I can infer that you are implying that if you havenít flown in the Air Force, done some bush flying or flown at an airline previously, then you are not a real pilot. I take it none of those places do any training then, when you join you must just be that amazing that you knew everything straight off. I can only hope that the old boys at your previous job didnít look down on you as the new guy.
What was the pay like at your previous job? Iím guessing it was less than CX otherwise why would you have left. So, if it wasnít that well paid, why did you take that job at your previous place of employment...surely someone as vocal about people taking inferior contracts would have also turned down a poorly paid flying contract in the past??

Donít get me wrong, I want EVERYONE to get the best contract, the 13th month, ARAPA, increased HKPA...etc but instead of asking for someone else to not accept a job for my own benefit, I think Iíll do the fighting myself thanks.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:33   #14 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I sympathise, divide and conquer has sadly already won. A group may only be divided if they are susceptible to be divided, as pilots historically are. Add to that the AOA who selfishly protected their own short term contracts, a GenY "me first" mantra and C-Scale easy-way-in and we arrive at present day CX.

CXKA it has EVERYTHING to do with what you deemed OK to accept and contribute to but not wanting ostracising from the sundry ramifications of? Management offered you a contract that [B]everyone[B] told you not to accept for all the right reasons, you ignored it thinking of only yourself. "Caused by management"? No. Only if you accept it. So they offered it, you begged for it, but now "it's got nothing to do with me" attitude?

Swire 101: Divide on Conquer
Millenial GenY: It's not my fault and someone owes me something.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:35   #15 (permalink)
 
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Everyone. Please. Stop the infighting. We are all frustrated. Turn your anger toward the correct target: our management. We need to unite and send a brutally strong message that NONE of us accept this treatment. Plan your individual action over the coming weeks. They need to feel corporate pain.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:40   #16 (permalink)
 
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Don't worry about RETI , it really doesn't save much especially if you shut down the engine approaching the bay ( compliance ) . What all crew need to do is help the company,out and burn through that ridiculously expensive fuel as quickly as possible . Then we can start making a profit again, no shortcuts . Management should be under no illusion to the cost of this decision .As was said by management in 99 during the dispute . "Don't forget we control the purse strings and the retort from assembled crew was "yes but it's our hands on the throttles .
So gents if you don't make this hurt really badly you are on a road to a hiding .
They have always said that they would cut and push until we pushed back , well now is the time to get creative and push back HARD. or leave your choice , but doing nothing is no longer an option
Initially I posted a number of ideas to help out those that are incapable of being inventive but it's probably better if management don't see them . If you need some ideas ask around
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:42   #17 (permalink)
 
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To all my fellow captains: please understand this is the most contemptuous slight we have ever witnessed. They are basically saying to everyone of us that we donít count. They assume we canít go anywhere so therefore they can ignore us and treat us with contempt and ridicule. To every C @ T captain, why would you debase yourself and your profession any further ? To line captains, why would you continue to show up as expected. They care nothing for our professionalism and loyalty. EveryONE of you MUST send a strong messsge this holiday season. In particular, the C @ T captains must resign. I did and you can also. This cannot go on any longer. This is a slap too far.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:51   #18 (permalink)
 
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Fat, maybe, Dumb - definitely. Research before shooting your mouth off or else Mark Twain foretold your existence moons ago.

I DID WALK AWAY. I was offered the original C-Scale contract. I said no. I walked away. I refused the scraps you begged for.

Didn't come out of the womb with 4 bars. I earned my hours & credentials not via a cheap contract that would undermine my colleagues or industry. You can't say the same.

There was a downturn in the market. I waited 3 Ĺ years for my promised CX job. All the while "miraculously" I worked and studied my ar$e off to be everywhere and be anywhere to fly. An autopilot was as alien to me as a spine is to you. There were jobs out there, admittedly fewer than high times, but they didn't all offer air conditioned cockpits & shortcuts. They were there. You just had to get off your lazy GenY backside to back yourself and make it happen.

Real pilots come in all walks of life and backgrounds. Hours, while a good indicator, are not always truly representative of aptitude. What is the best indicator is past behaviour as well as one's morality and professional integrity. Your past dictates you're willing to undercut a market to get a job. You could be the Ace Sandwich Eating Champine of C-Scale (perhaps why you're fat?) and best cocktail maker at AT's little soires.....but your character is as your character does.

So go on! Stand up for what you believe in: UNITY! Go and create and account whereby ALL pilots who received a bonus pool that money and then divide it up amongst ALL pilots evenly. You're all about UNITY and "don't blame me for what I helped create". GO ON!! SHOW UNITY AND SHARE YOUR BONUS EVENLY! See we're different. I backed up my convictions and beliefs and rejected what you scoffed up. You won't back up your rhetoric because it's all about YOU.

So Fat(perhaps)_Dumb(definitely)_and_Unhappy(because you gobbled up the sh!t sandwich C-Scale contract), you are wrong in all your accusations.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:59   #19 (permalink)
 
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Trafalgar. Totally agree with your sentiments and to everyone else until you have the four gold stripes the planes don't fly and if the C&T's resign there aren't any new stripes being handed out. Simple.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 10:03   #20 (permalink)
 
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ChinaBeached.
Excellent suggestion but it will fall on deaf ears and no one in the RHS will forfeit their 35K but it will be a different story when the come to do their CMD sims and upgrade rides. But hang on, by then all the C&T's will have resigned so guess what perpetual RHS work. Then, to resolve the crewing problems DEC's on 5 year contracts. Watch this space.
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